All Will Be Revealed 03.31.12

[gride]

They don't offer a discount. The Msrp is just so high they let you think they are giving you a deal, but in reality you are paying them an amount to make them a profit. it gives dealers room to work because some folks will end up paying a lot more than an experienced buyer for the same boat.

[tgator96]

Also, most dealers offer a rather substantial discount on new boats that reduces the amount of depreciation even further . . . .

[AllianceBJJ]

I just sold my 2011 230 for EXACTLY what I paid for it just over 1 year ago......Just sayin.....

Wishful thinking. 230's and 236's have had resale-plummet and have not been able to get out of their own way when it comes to resale drop and I've never studied a new boat closer. I've been in the market for one (a used one) since the day the 236 crossover came out and I am going to be able to do it 2 years earlier than planned because of how fast the boat has fallen in terms of resale. It will continue to do this, even in light of a shovel-bow SAN 230 or a SAN 250. The 230/236 is what I consider to be the best wake boat currently available but I am actually surprised I'm in the market for one. That has been an approximately $90,000 boat since its introduction. I can't afford that, not even close. Resale has dropped to a point where one is actually attainable to me. Lil ol me. It's a dream boat. Whatever this new thing is, I care as a Nautique fan but I am not after one right now. This new model can absolutely only serve to lower the price on a 230 for me and that makes me happy.

The sheer number of 230's and 236's I saw this winter in the 50k ranges would astonish you, in case you are not already aware. I saw a high 40's boat too but it was an eBay sale and I was never able to verify the sale.

[shag]

Let me correct myself. If someone bought a 230, and put a fair amount down, then they they should be somewhat safe. I feel very comfortable that if I had to sell my 2009 230 team, I could get at least what I owe on it..... probably more if I waited..... But I don't see myself selling anytime soon.
Again, just an opinion based on what I have seen, and what some that are in the market have indicated to me. No worries.

[Orbiter]

I certainly haven't been in the market for pre-owned 230s like you but a quick search of onlyinboards.com--2010 or older--shows 13 230s for sale; only 4 under $60k (and 2 of those are salt water boats in S. Florida); high of $91k. A 2008 in the $50s is 10% depreciation per year. that doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Yep, it is a very personal kind of measurement. I'm personally not comforted with 10% a year nut-punch. These boats last, what, 50 years now? More? In an age of all-fiberglass? That 10% means in 10 years it's a paperweight right?

Obviously I am joking because we all know that at some point the depreciation plateaus or stops entirely at some theoretical level like it did for the original Super Sports, 210's, Sport Nautique's (almost all Sport Nautiques), 2001's, and the 196 Ski Nautique. I don't know where that plateau will be on the 230/236 but I would guess it will be around the 40's. To me that is a shocker on an in-production boat, and I definitely think it can happen. I think the market will support 50k for a few years because the company isn't making a zillion of the boat. I still think it's insane, I think that $40k-$50k is what they (and all top-shelf wake boats) should have been all along, and this all factors very carefully into how I have been watching, playing the long game as I approach buying one. I don't think I am out to lunch on this.

[tgator96]

I certainly haven't been in the market for pre-owned 230s like you but a quick search of onlyinboards.com--2010 or older--shows 13 230s for sale; only 4 under $60k (and 2 of those are salt water boats in S. Florida); high of $91k. A 2008 in the $50s is 10% depreciation per year. that doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Wishful thinking. 230's and 236's have had resale-plummet and have not been able to get out of their own way when it comes to resale drop and I've never studied a new boat closer. I've been in the market for one (a used one) since the day the 236 crossover came out and I am going to be able to do it 2 years earlier than planned because of how fast the boat has fallen in terms of resale. It will continue to do this, even in light of a shovel-bow SAN 230 or a SAN 250. The 230/236 is what I consider to be the best wake boat currently available but I am actually surprised I'm in the market for one. That has been an approximately $90,000 boat since its introduction. I can't afford that, not even close. Resale has dropped to a point where one is actually attainable to me. Lil ol me. It's a dream boat. Whatever this new thing is, I care as a Nautique fan but I am not after one right now. This new model can absolutely only serve to lower the price on a 230 for me and that makes me happy.

The sheer number of 230's and 236's I saw this winter in the 50k ranges would astonish you, in case you are not already aware. I saw a high 40's boat too but it was an eBay sale and I was never able to verify the sale.

[Orbiter]

Guess again buddy

Whatever this boat is, I think the 230 owners are safe with their boat values. If anything, I think it will make the 230 worth a bit more.....

Wishful thinking. 230's and 236's have had resale-plummet and have not been able to get out of their own way when it comes to resale drop and I've never studied a new boat closer. I've been in the market for one (a used one) since the day the 236 crossover came out and I am going to be able to do it 2 years earlier than planned because of how fast the boat has fallen in terms of resale. It will continue to do this, even in light of a shovel-bow SAN 230 or a SAN 250. The 230/236 is what I consider to be the best wake boat currently available but I am actually surprised I'm in the market for one. That has been an approximately $90,000 boat since its introduction. I can't afford that, not even close. Resale has dropped to a point where one is actually attainable to me. Lil ol me. It's a dream boat. Whatever this new thing is, I care as a Nautique fan but I am not after one right now. This new model can absolutely only serve to lower the price on a 230 for me and that makes me happy.

The sheer number of 230's and 236's I saw this winter in the 50k ranges would astonish you, in case you are not already aware. I saw a high 40's boat too but it was an eBay sale and I was never able to verify the sale.

[shag]

Whatever this boat is, I think the 230 owners are safe with their boat values. If anything, I think it will make the 230 worth a bit more. I love my 2009 230, the wake is great imo. And with lil effort, I get a good surf wake.. I am sure that CC will have come out with a great new boat, but only a small slice will be able to afford this boat. I also am not a fan of the everything in one dash. (all gauges and controls in the linc) It is a great feature, but I just see that being very expensive to fix later on. I have zero off and all the gauges and am more than satisfied. I think (imo) that we focus too much on the gadgets and not enough on the actual purpose of what we have. Look at the new car ads, you see more about the little things they do on the interior, other than how the car is actually made. (or how well it's made. Insert Chris Farley line from Tommy boy here: "I can take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed")
I do commend CC for always being innovative and pushing the envelope.

[tke104]

i find it interesting that people want or insist that for something to be effective, it has to be one dimensional. it wasnt long ago that the light truck industry (which interestingly stirs very similar debates amongst its loyalists) were up in arms when Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota and Nissan decided there was a market for trucks that did things other than just tow and haul at their GCWR (i.e ride well unloaded, carry the family, have increased fuel economy, have various creature comforts like leather and nav). the reality is that the manufacturers didnt decide there was a market for such trucks, the market demanded them. As such, the market demands that as a wake sports boat price goes up, the more things it better do well. I primarily fruit boot, but i have been injured enough to realize there is extreme value in my 230's ability to wake skate and wake surf while i am on the mend... but we can agree to disagree.

I agree completely. While I personally wouldn't care if this boat didn't have a good small wake, I understand that there are a ton of people who would. The fact is that most people who are going to buy this boat are not pro level riders, and CC doesn't want to shy away potential buyers because when their 13 year old rides behind this boat at 19 mph, the wake is mush. CC is in the business of selling boats; they are not in the business of making the best possible wakeboard boat while alienating 90% of the people that could actually afford it. Obviously they are going to put some R&D into the surf wake (or at least say they did). Surfing has gotten huge in the past 10 years. I know there are people who don't care about wakesurfing, but I think there are more people who care than don't care, and I would be willing to bet that the people who do care are the people with the money.

Also, it doesn't bother me that CC is making all this hype about their new probably flagship boat. If you were in the business of selling boats, and you were proud of a product that took years to create wouldn't you get the word out as well? I actually really like the way CC is going about it. They are showing pro riders actually ride behind the boat and having them talk about the wake and the design process that went into it, before showing all of the interior features and bells and whistles. I'm not trying to bash MC, but they announced their new flagship boat months ago and there are still limited shot of its wake (there are plenty of interior walk-throughs and videos of the electronic rising dashboard though). CC hasn't even formally announced this boat yet and there are plenty of shots of the wake in action (I know it's in a controlled environment and I'm sure they chose only the best shots).

[210GA]

Maybe it's this?!?

[tdc_worm]

Real Talk. I want to be excited about this without restraint. Unfortunately I've turned the corner on all the pre-news news and now I just need to see it. That's me, that's my opinion. If I am on my own with this, I am ok with it but it makes me sick to my stomach that they're already throwing around talk of the "small wake" r&d that they've done for beginners. Similarly I could not care less about surf. I do not care about beginners riding behind this (presumed) 23ft-25ft wakeboarding monster. I wish they would stop with that line of pre-sales garbage and leave the amateur hour for Tige to bat clean up for. They can make those "it's wonderful for everybody" claims in the dealerships when the time comes and when we don't have to worry about it casting doubt on what could have been a great design (and maybe it still is).

But right now the last thing I want to hear are those apologetic statements that doomed the original 226 in the hearts of many, and have proven to be a fault with the design of the 230. Just once I would like them to take the gloves off and say "This thing is 25 feet long and weighs about 5000lbs. Grandma and Grandpa should ride behind that 211 if they want, this is not the boat for them because its wake is plain enormous." Nobody, N O B O D Y has managed to pull off small wake and big wake in one boat without 2,000lbs of ballast playing a role. Nobody. Not one boat. None. The more they dabble in small wake tech, and choose to talk about it... the more I see wasted R & D dollars that will just make this thing more expensive.

The wake **looks** big in the videos. Good. Presuming it is coming from Grey (that better be a reference to a whale or it's the most boring skunk works project codename I've ever heard of). But in my opinion they should have nipped the one size fits all talk in the bud & retracted it. It has thrown a pall over this whole thing that I am having trouble getting past.

i find it interesting that people want or insist that for something to be effective, it has to be one dimensional. it wasnt long ago that the light truck industry (which interestingly stirs very similar debates amongst its loyalists) were up in arms when Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota and Nissan decided there was a market for trucks that did things other than just tow and haul at their GCWR (i.e ride well unloaded, carry the family, have increased fuel economy, have various creature comforts like leather and nav). the reality is that the manufacturers didnt decide there was a market for such trucks, the market demanded them. As such, the market demands that as a wake sports boat price goes up, the more things it better do well. I primarily fruit boot, but i have been injured enough to realize there is extreme value in my 230's ability to wake skate and wake surf while i am on the mend... but we can agree to disagree.

[gride]

He's actually about 5'8. I'm 5'7 and used to ride with him almost daily. Usually the knee high description is a drastic overstatement, but we shall see.

[Orbiter]

Real Talk. I want to be excited about this without restraint. Unfortunately I've turned the corner on all the pre-news news and now I just need to see it. That's me, that's my opinion. If I am on my own with this, I am ok with it but it makes me sick to my stomach that they're already throwing around talk of the "small wake" r&d that they've done for beginners. Similarly I could not care less about surf. I do not care about beginners riding behind this (presumed) 23ft-25ft wakeboarding monster. I wish they would stop with that line of pre-sales garbage and leave the amateur hour for Tige to bat clean up for. They can make those "it's wonderful for everybody" claims in the dealerships when the time comes and when we don't have to worry about it casting doubt on what could have been a great design (and maybe it still is).

But right now the last thing I want to hear are those apologetic statements that doomed the original 226 in the hearts of many, and have proven to be a fault with the design of the 230. Just once I would like them to take the gloves off and say "This thing is 25 feet long and weighs about 5000lbs. Grandma and Grandpa should ride behind that 211 if they want, this is not the boat for them because its wake is plain enormous." Nobody, N O B O D Y has managed to pull off small wake and big wake in one boat without 2,000lbs of ballast playing a role. Nobody. Not one boat. None. The more they dabble in small wake tech, and choose to talk about it... the more I see wasted R & D dollars that will just make this thing more expensive.

The wake **looks** big in the videos. Good. Presuming it is coming from Grey (that better be a reference to a whale or it's the most boring skunk works project codename I've ever heard of). But in my opinion they should have nipped the one size fits all talk in the bud & retracted it. It has thrown a pall over this whole thing that I am having trouble getting past.

[AllianceBJJ]

. I totally understand seeing a wake in pics and vids and all that, but it seriously looks to be above jd's knees when he's in the trough.

JD is like 5'4, so not sure if that tells us much about the size of the wake yet....

[gride]

The homer Simpson car was already revealed. It's called the new x-star. I am getting more excited by the day. I totally understand seeing a wake in pics and vids and all that, but it seriously looks to be above jd's knees when he's in the trough.