G23 Sunk Yesterday on a Texas Lake

[shag]

I'm thinking this may be why older Nautiques and others, had exhaust flappers. To help reduce incoming water in the event of a failure. Glad everyone was unhurt.

[bturner]

My understanding is that the flappers are for inversion, backing up or wave action forcing water back into the exhaust then into the cylinders.

In this case the towing certainly didn't help. I've seen boats that were rolled off their lifts during storms on Lake Erie that were dragged back out to the lake by the wave action that were still floating at deck level the next day after the storm. the first thing the recovery boats do is get flotation bags secured on the boat them they try to tow them.

If that exhaust hose blew off you'd have to do some very quick thinking to save the boat. The Captain Hindsight in me would say he should have stuffed a beach towel or life jacket in the exhaust port from the outside but doubt I would have thought of that quick enough if I would have been there.

If that's what happened that's one big hole to plug. I'd still be pissed at my kids for posting the stupid video on TikTok though. What a dick thing to do to someone who just lost a prized possession.

[SANonTellico]

My understanding is that the flappers are for inversion, backing up or wave action forcing water back into the exhaust then into the cylinders.

In this case the towing certainly didn't help. I've seen boats that were rolled off their lifts during storms on Lake Erie that were dragged back out to the lake by the wave action that were still floating at deck level the next day after the storm. the first thing the recovery boats do is get flotation bags secured on the boat them they try to tow them.

If that exhaust hose blew off you'd have to do some very quick thinking to save the boat. The Captain Hindsight in me would say he should have stuffed a beach towel or life jacket in the exhaust port from the outside but doubt I would have thought of that quick enough if I would have been there.

If that's what happened that's one big hole to plug. I'd still be pissed at my kids for posting the stupid video on TikTok though. What a dick thing to do to someone who just lost a prized possession.

I agree with your Captain Hindsight comment…….if the exhaust hose comes off and water is pouring into the boat, maybe jump in the water and stuff a towel into the surf pipe or exhaust hole? Most likely too much pressure to stop the water flow from inside the boat but shouldn’t be much of a problem from outside the boat where the water is entering. I’m guessing that when water is pouring into the boat most people aren’t thinking about jumping into the water to stop the leak.

[RDT-G23]

RDT....was it on LBJ? I know it's not too deep out there....shouldn't be too hard to bring up if so. I thought I saw a comment about 60 feet....but I didn't think there was 60 feet in LBJ. Glad everyone got out safe..

No, one up north in the state.

[wakefan]

RDT-G23

What I still don't understand is why the boat sank at all. It was my understanding that - by design - boats like this were supposed to be neutrally buoyant so that they might swamp but not sink. NautiqueJeff also raises this point.....but maybe I'm misinformed...?

A hypothetical question only... What if an owner is using lead weights? (I know nothing of this situation, this boat or this owner.) More of an insurance type question. A boat may be designed to be neutrally buoyant, however place 500lbs of lead in it, maybe not so much. Who's legally responsible for the boat sinking(and the recovery cost)? The manufacturer or the owner? My guess is that the insurance company would try to avoid paying, as that is just what they do.

One more time.... Don't know a darn thing about this specific incident. Just thinking out loud...

[bturner]

That is a good question and it may play if Nautique were dragged into as you've modified the boat. No clue though as to the actual answer.

[Tchur1]

A hypothetical question only... What if an owner is using lead weights? (I know nothing of this situation, this boat or this owner.) More of an insurance type question. A boat may be designed to be neutrally buoyant, however place 500lbs of lead in it, maybe not so much. Who's legally responsible for the boat sinking(and the recovery cost)? The manufacturer or the owner? My guess is that the insurance company would try to avoid paying, as that is just what they do.

One more time.... Don't know a darn thing about this specific incident. Just thinking out loud...

Interesting question for sure, if the added lead is within the weight capacity that the boat is approved to carry however would that nullify? What would the difference be in having 4 additional bodies that weighed 600 lbs vs the 500 lbs of lead on board? Just thinking out loud as well

[wakefan]

Interesting question for sure, if the added lead is within the weight capacity that the boat is approved to carry however would that nullify? What would the difference be in having 4 additional bodies that weighed 600 lbs vs the 500 lbs of lead on board? Just thinking out loud as well

Once the boat is more or less full of water(but yet still on the surface), I would think 4 bodies of live weight, with life jackets on(as you would expect if boat is sinking), would have much less effect on the boat sinking, as compared to 600lbs of lead in the hull. And without a doubt, that lead is along for the ride all the way to the bottom. The people, especially with jackets on, not so much(hopefully!). But I could be wrong.

[Tchur1]

Once the boat is more or less full of water(but yet still on the surface), I would think 4 bodies of live weight, with life jackets on(as you would expect if boat is sinking), would have much less effect on the boat sinking, as compared to 600lbs of lead in the hull. And without a doubt, that lead is along for the ride all the way to the bottom. The people, especially with jackets on, not so much(hopefully!). But I could be wrong.

Definitely agree that lead is going to the bottom but humans hopefully will not.

I was more thinking in terms of the insurance/who pays for this aspect of your question. Max capacity on a G is about 2500 lbs so as long as the lead + humans + gear does not exceed that limit you would think you are within regular operating rules for a claim? Again im no expert, just my thoughts as it relates to what you brought up.

I also don't know if these boats are designed to be neutrally buoyant with ballast full and at max capacity or just with full ballast as others have mentioned.

[wakefan]

Definitely agree that lead is going to the bottom but humans hopefully will not.

I was more thinking in terms of the insurance/who pays for this aspect of your question. Max capacity on a G is about 2500 lbs so as long as the lead + humans + gear does not exceed that limit you would think you are within regular operating rules for a claim? Again im no expert, just my thoughts as it relates to what you brought up.

I also don't know if these boats are designed to be neutrally buoyant with ballast full and at max capacity or just with full ballast as others have mentioned.

Great point. One would hope they'd design for the worst possible case. But that probably means more cost and less profit, so who knows. There might be Coast Guard regulation(s) that would come into play when a boat design is certified for "X" number of people. I doubt they just let manufacturers make up their own specs, but I sure don't know. Interesting discussion!

[JSnipes]

I think thats the value of the discussion … to add items to the mental checklist if you find yourself in a similar situation. I’d like to think that in the heat of the moment after closing all seacocks and still having water coming in that I would have been able to identify exhaust failure and then jump in the water and cram a towel in it.

I now KNOW that I’ll think about that. I don’t expect anyone onboard except for me to figure that out and save the boat … if they do then great, I’ll buy them a beer afterwards … but in the end the captain is responsible and threads like this help to prepare us all for what we hope will never happen.

JS

I agree with your Captain Hindsight comment…….if the exhaust hose comes off and water is pouring into the boat, maybe jump in the water and stuff a towel into the surf pipe or exhaust hole? Most likely too much pressure to stop the water flow from inside the boat but shouldn’t be much of a problem from outside the boat where the water is entering. I’m guessing that when water is pouring into the boat most people aren’t thinking about jumping into the water to stop the leak.

[SilentSeven]

Re lead in the boat and buoyancy...wouldn't be surprised at all to find something that speaks to this in the fine print of the Nautique documentation. Anyone have the most current stuff and want to poke around?

I'm not an engineer but from recollection, lead pigs will have a very different buoyancy effect when underwater than a water filled ballast tank. I would expect the ballast tank to be almost neutral as the volume displaced is near the mass of the water. Pigs on the other hand will continue to be very negative when submerged and maybe to point to exceeding the factory buoyancy safety margin. If Nautique's lawyers haven't yet included this as an exclusion in the documentation, I bet they are thinking about it.


Edit / got curious. From page I-85 in the 2021 Nautique manual.

[SANonTellico]

Re lead in the boat and buoyancy...wouldn't be surprised at all to find something that speaks to this in the fine print of the Nautique documentation. Anyone have the most current stuff and want to poke around?

I'm not an engineer but from recollection, lead pigs will have a very different buoyancy effect when underwater than a water filled ballast tank. I would expect the ballast tank to be almost neutral as the volume displaced is near the mass of the water. Pigs on the other hand will continue to very negative when submerged and maybe to point to exceeding the factory buoyancy safety margin. If Nautique's lawyers haven't yet included this as an exclusion in the documentation, I bet they are thinking about it.

I believe steel loses about 13% of its weight when underwater. 500 lbs of steel would be about 435 lbs under water.

[RDT-G23]

I realize that a post a few back started this discussion about lead/extra weight as a hypothetical scenario; I'll remind all that it is just that, hypothetical. He had no extra ballast in any form-on the G.

[mooneywa]

Lotta celebrating the problem here... we get it, weight-laden boats have varying amounts of risk. Moving on, what's the takeaway here? Should we all go out and double check clamps on exhaust hoses? Should this be a check before getting underway just like checking the drain plug? Or is that something that inherently shouldn't come off? I've been boating for a long time and I'll admit it was never anything remotely in my scan.