Price Swapping!

[TN_SN_Convert]

That is interesting ... I would love to know. I can tell everyone from the prices I am getting right now from both the CC is significantly more exspensive. For comparable boats in my opinion. CC I am looking at the 211 and MC looking at X9 and X1 with ballast system (it is an option this year)

[skinautique]

There is no comparable boat in MC's line to the 211. The X1 (prior to 2006) are closer to the 210 and the X9 being closer to the 216.

[AbunDiga909]

Yes I agree with ski's comparision. If you're interested in the X9 definately check out the 216.

[bkhallpass]

Hey convert. I agree with you that competing MC against CC is a good, and
common negotiating strategy. But I also agree with the others that MC doesn't
have a boat that matches up well with the 211 (some of the brands do, but they
aren't in the same class, and wouldn't work well as a negotiating tool). MCs
got an awful lot of models, just not one to match the 211 IMO.

If you find that the X9 or x1 meet your families needs as well as the 211, then
it seems likely to me that you'll end up in one of those boats. Those boats are
priced significantly lower than the 211. I'd be surprised if any dealer is going
to try to meet the price of those boats on a 211. ICBW.

BKH

[Hollywood]

The X9 is almost a waste of a boat. Empty the slalom wake isn't anything to write home about, and it takes a ton (no pun intended) to get any wake out of it for boarding. MC has nothing to compete with the 211. The X7 on the other hand is an awesome boat.

[jwhposon]

I feel compelled to give my .02. I come from an industry where we are the largest supplier in the domestic market for these products. We have long been regarded as not only the leaders, but a privately held company with morals. We do about 250m in sales annually. Our largest dealer makes up 60%, the other top three dealers 30%, and the remaining 10% are independents. All dealers pay the same price regardless of the market conditions. The resell of the product differs slightly, however it is thier job to differentiate based on servies other than the initial sale of the product. If a dealer within a reasonable distance is offering it at a lower price then the higher dealer justifies it with prevenetative maintenance contracts, first service call free, sort of thing. Obviously within this distance the difference between dealers should not be morally substantial. Equally disappointing is CC inablity to manage thier dealers using other structures than to penalize the consumer. It is obvious that all dealers are not the nice wonderland places everyone wants to be, so when your stuck with those "turkey's" then the consumer seeks elsewhere. Honestly, the purchase is just the beginning of a long relationship, when the boats are this good, you advertise, brag and act as references - when the service is poor you go somewhere else. I suggest CC wake up and get out of the 70s and 80s and adopt a new dealer management program that will be a win/win for the dealer and consumer. OK, so I read everyone's .02 and thought it was all good and no disrespect to anyone for voicing theirs nor did I intend to overstep anyone elses.

[TN_SN_Convert]

I hear ya guys and you all know much more about these boats and dealers then I ever will, however, it does not matter how the boats compare. I love the 211 and hope to purchase one, however, I am only willing to pay $X more than the other boats. Now if I had unlimited funds I would not even be posting ... but that is not the case. It is a price/value conversation ... So I continue to negotiate.

I love this forum ... good discussion.

[AbunDiga909]

I think everyone letting their dealers know they're interested in the competition is a good thing. We made the mistake (I think...) of telling our dealer very early that we love Nuatiqus, are very loyal to the company, think they're the best, and would buy one even if we didn't think they're the best, and that if we end up with a new boat, it's going to be a Nautique. To him I think he saw that as an opprotunity to delay or at least hesitate giving the lowest price he could. On the other hand my friend who got a new 210 this year just one day walked in to the dealer, said I'm either going to end up with a 210 or an X-Star. I'd rather have a 210 and be here (dealer's priave club) but if the price is good on the XStar I'm just going to have to take it. This guy got a price pretty close to what we paid in much less time very quickly...

[efox]

I have a couple of thoughts to share.

Why would you not comparison shop for the deal you want on anything. Today, with the net, it is much easier to do than say 10 years ago. When I was looking for a used SN I found one in Canton Ohio and another in Raleigh NC. The one in Raleigh was 3K less with comparable hours and equipment, so I trucked on down and bought it. Even the gas, wear on my tow vehicle, and motel stay didn't approach 3K!

I think shopping for a new boat should be the same. Locally some people went to the Supra dealer for their boat. 5 families walked away from the dealer and bought from one dealer in Michigan on the same day because he was willing to deal on the price.

Boat shows are a great time to go and get a deal on a new boat. In my area I have three dealers within about 100 miles...MD, MidOhio, and whoever these new guys in Cincinnati are. If I were shopping for a boat I would expect to be able to give them each my wish list and get their best price. Subsequently I would buy from the best quote. Every dealer needs to make money, how much is up to each of them.

As for sharing prices and asking how much people paid, I was raised to think those questions were crass.

Eric

[SprintCar39]

If you quote a boat outside of your "area of responsibility" (which is spelled out in the contract) you are told to quote at MSRP and not to quote anything over the phone. You will pay $$ if you sell a boat out of your area of responsibility and into another dealers area. If you sell into a "gray" area and the customer takes the boat to another dealer for warranty work the selling dealer will be charged $2,500. The dealers are told to refer the customer to their local dealer. There is much more to this than you can imagine.

[ag4ever]

I compairison shop most everything, but I don't always pay the lowest price even when I know there is a lower price to be had. One example of this is the fact I will not buy anything from Wal-Mart. Even though they might have a lower price on many items, I don't care for their business model or ethics, so hence I pay more to a reputable company for the same product. It is the same way with other products too, I would rather suport my local businesses especially the mom and pop ones. but even when i pay a higher price, I want to know what the bargain basement price is for my knowleged because an uninformed consumer is ripe for the picking. I am in construction, and most of my work is with hard bid projects where the low bidder gets the work. The biggest problem with this is that it encourages cut throat bidding, and usually to get a project you have to miss an item or leave something out on accident. Then to be profittable, you have to beat the owner up on changes to get your profit back. This is kin to the dealers fighting for each other's consumers. Then on the other hand when there is no competition, the profits become excessive,and the consumers (or in construction owners) lose by not getting a decent price. A soulution some owners in construction have come to is second low bidding. This is where the owner awards a contract to the second low bidder knowing they are getting competative pricing, but the pricing is not so competative that it is cut throat. This is a win-win situation where competition benifits both parties.

This is why I think talking about pricing is good, not so you can beat your dealer out of every dime, but so you get a good price and they get a decent profit.

[efox]

So MidOhio, you are saying that if I were in the gray area and bought from you and then serviced my boat with MD...you would be charged $2500 by CC? I'm not a attourney, but that sounds like extorion to me! What is a person in the gray area to do? Further, you mean to tell me that CC is penalizing all the people "working" around a certain pacific dealer? You don't think CC tracks a trend in who does better in sales versus who does service?

While it protects your interest as a dealer...at least initially, it doesn't seem to encourage one to perform well after the sale...which is a point of contention for most consumers of boats! I think we all know that service and parts is the bread and butter of the automotive dealer...I have to believe it is similar to boats. I hope this doesnt sound like I am picking on you or the other area dealers...I am picking on CC. I have found your people to be very honest and knowledgable but have had MD do my work as the are similarly good and a bit closer too.

[SprintCar39]

Eric, What I said was that if you were in a gray area and purchased the boat from us and had "warranty" work done by another dealer we would then be charged. (or would have been....no longer a dealer)

[jefe]

MidOhio-
This is exactly what I believe needs to be *updated*, contract examples, such as what you listed there. I am sure it worked fine in the 80's, but in the era of global forums, internet classifieds and so on, I think they need to lead the way in this...

I would ask you what you thought of the territory issue, but I wouldn't want to get you in trouble. :???:

[FatBoy]

As I have stated before. PRICE FIXING....