Price Swapping!

[Harry_Potter]

Paulberry, both ourselves and TV have a price list with list prices of the complete range. Just give us a call if you need one. We mainly quote on an individual basis though as there are a tremendous range of options and variations and we try to tailor each boat to it's owners requirements.

[redelf75]

CC has in the past offered to use non CC dealers for warranty work, and either pay the other company or refund the cost of the service.

That I didn't know, but assume it must be on a one on one basis. Perhaps if a customer is no where close to a CC dealer, they would allow some work to be done by a third, qualified, company.

WHen I say shop around, I refer to shopping competition prices. A CC dealer has to be compitively priced to other manufacturers in the area before he competes with another CC dealer 50 - 100 miles away. If a CC quote is $5000 higher than another CC dealer, it's also going to stand out like a sore thumb compared to the MC quote from accross the street. I think.

[caudo]

NautiqueJeff

You mentioned that WB Mag listed the price of the 211 in the last issue. Do you recall what they listed it as?

Thanks

[bkhallpass]

Waterski Magazine, page 69.

"The Air Nautique SV-211 Team Edition starts at $57,544 with Flight Control Tower
and Launch Control System."

Same page:

"The Super Air 220 Team Edition starts at $61, 037 with . . ."

Same page:

the 196 "team edition starts at $48,155 . . . ."


BKH

[tvlaz]

Dec. Issue Wakeboard magazine pg 66

Super Air Nautique 220 - $61,037

Could someone jog my memory? When the first pics of the 220 came out (white lake - NC boat show) wasn't there a pic available of the "boat show price"? Somewhere in the range of $57K? The pic was removed from the thread soon after posting. The reason provided.... it was inaccurate. A bit hard to believe that a dealer would make such a mistake at a show.

[BozBoarder]

It would be one CC dealer ripping off another fellow CC dealer. What kind of image does that give the competitors of our company if it can't even organize themselves?

Ripping off? How many dealers are in going to be ripping off? There is a base amount of "mark up" a dealer needs to be successful, and if he excedes the mark then he is contributing to his own demise. If he is selling a great product (Correct Craft) then he doesn't need to be taking less than the market price for a new boat, nor charging more than another dealer. A dealer that is taking advantage of the "regional sales area"and wants more than the market value will be called in his bluff and have to compete with other dealers. Again, this is basic economics. I may not have grounds to argue this point because I have not bought new, mostly for this reason. Boats and RV's are famous for taking a huge hit for the first couple of years and I would much rather brag about my CC keeping its value than losing its value. I haven't used the CC dealer once, and have had great service from the Sanger, Mastercraft dealer and cant complain a bit. They dont care what type of boat I have, they know that the CC is a quality product and are happy to take care of any needs that I have. Sorry to all those who are loyal to their dealers but to me a boat dealer is a boat dealer and I love my CC and as long as it is taken care of I am happy.

[BozBoarder]

Great thread, thanks redelf75!

[AbunDiga909]

Boz I see what you're saying, but what I was saying was kinda speaking from my experience, which was lets say you are considering a leftover from an out of state dealer or a new from your local dealer. Then you have these two CC dealers competing against each other. Both dealers are going to offer an all-time low and if that number got out to the public, then that dealer that offered the price but didn't get the sale would be getting ripped off... see what I mean? Then just add another dealer to the situation and think what the complications would be... Next time I'm just sticking w/ my local dealer...

[redelf75]

Great thread, thanks redelf75!

It didn't quite go the way I was hoping, but I agree it certainly is entertaining. THanks,

[BozBoarder]

Then you have these two CC dealers competing against each other. Both dealers are going to offer an all-time low and if that number got out to the public, then that dealer that offered the price but didn't get the sale would be getting ripped off..

This is a 100/1 Scenario, and there are always exceptions the rule. Always go apples to apples, if you are bragging a deal that isn't apples to apples then it will catch up to you. If a dealer makes me a killer deal, then he is the man no matter what location. I will buy new if I get the deal I want, and I will drive to Cali or Kansas to do it. Did you Abundiga909 personally buy your boat? Some folks who are blessed with money dont care what they pay, and great for them, for those who work their a$$ off to play hard, they want the deal.

[DRAGON88]

I don't really get it, I mean the dealership is rarely getting "screwed" because they have the final say in what their bottom line is... I don't think it's unfair to post prices, someone will always get a better deal. Will the dealership maybe get 100% the price they want out of the boat? Maybe not. But they are still the ones agreing to the deal. I don't quite get all the dealership sympathising, I mean they are a business and if they aren't smart enough to make enough profit on a boat then isn't it their fault?

[AbunDiga909]

This is a 100/1 Scenario, and there are always exceptions the rule. Always go apples to apples, if you are bragging a deal that isn't apples to apples then it will catch up to you. If a dealer makes me a killer deal, then he is the man no matter what location. I will buy new if I get the deal I want, and I will drive to Cali or Kansas to do it. Did you Abundiga909 personally buy your boat? Some folks who are blessed with money dont care what they pay, and great for them, for those who work their a$$ off to play hard, they want the deal.

Well, me, personally? No I didn't pay the money from my walet, my family did. I don't like caling it "my parent's" boat or "my dad's" boat I like calling it the families. Anyone in the family can call it theirs that's how I see it, just like anyone in the family call's it their house not their parents' house.

But, for the past 3 years or so there hasn't been a day where I've asked my dad "Who'd you talk to today?" From that question my answers include anything having to do with any email, phone call, fax, etc... from a CC dealer, CC headquarters, CC regional manager, Ram-Lin, Tower Biminis, Lake Authority (don't ask), Fusion, guy who works on boat, and anyone else who remotely has to do with the boat. Everything that happens to our boat I discuss with my dad. Anything done to the boat we decide together. And, I know everything my dad knows about the boat if not more. Any conversation with anyone, I've heard about and responded to. There hasn't been one time so far since we've owned the boat that something has been discussed with my dad that I haven't been involved in, for the most part. I therefore think it's ok to say stuff regarding us and our boat buying process... I think I even kept all my old emails from everyone from CC, I still have the notes on my desk now from winter of '03...

I wouldn't expect my scenario to be that unlikely but I dunno... But the thing is I'm saying I wouldn't ever brag about a deal if it was killer good! That's the whole point if you have dealers from the same company (CC) competing against each other the numbers the dealers would be offering would be supper low and that's why I am in no position to say what deal my dealer gave me. In general I think its a good rule of thumb not to share your prices personally b/c you never know there may be someone who paid more than you and then your dealer will not like you b/c he will not be able to sell Nautiques at that higher price anymore... I think I'm comparing apples to apples I don't exactly know what you mean by that...

Hopefully I'll one day be able to work my *** off to buy a Nautique, but I will always care what I pay... And I will probably go back to the dealer next time I want to buy a boat during October or November for the first time, that give me more time to work a lower price till summer!

[bkhallpass]

I don't quite get all the dealership sympathising, I mean they are a business and if they aren't smart enough to make enough profit on a boat then isn't it their fault?

Dragon,

In its simplest terms, you are correct. In the real world, it doesn't quite work that way. I've known geniuses and successful business people that have lost everything. I know you are a young man, and when you get 20 or 30 years of business experience under your belt, your views will probably change a bit.

The reality is that competition boat dealers are small businesses, in a very high end, and very niche market place. The largest Nautique dealer in the world only sells about 100 boats per year. If we assume an average sales price of $55,000 per boat, and an average profit of 20%, that is still only $1.1M per year. That is before the small business owner pays the employees, the benefits, the taxes, the utilities, the rent/mortgage, advertising and marketing, flooring costs on the boats, insurance, fork lift, tow vehicle, etc. Remember that's the largest dealer. When you pay off everything, not much is left over. Further, my assumption that they make 20% per boat is probably too high.

Obviously dealers supplement income with service, parts, merchandise, financing, etc. However, all this continues to add to the costs of employees, eal estate, inventory, worker's comp, etc.

Now add in the complexities of wage and overtime laws, OSHA regulations,
anti-trust and price fixing laws. Not to mention outside and uncontrollable
forces like slow economies, high gas prices, natural disasters which
impact shipping and other costs.

When dealers of the same brand begin bidding against each other, they cannibalize the margins for all. Long term this is a concern for the parent company. If dealers can't make sufficient margins they go out of business, and that's bad for the health of the parent. The parent cannot tell a dealer how much to charge. That is illegal. So, they look for legal ways to protect dealer interests and in turn their own interests. Territories are perhaps the most common protective measure.

I'm over simplifying, many books have been written on distributed business models. Just suffice to say that it is much more complicated than it appears on the surface.

Ultimately, the best reason to understand the dealership is not for sympathy, but rather to maximize your own negotiating capabilities. There is a book called "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu. It was written over 10,000 years ago and is still used by military and busines leaders. What's
amazing is that after 10,000 years there are still five constants in battle or business. Two of which are know the marketplace (battlefield) and know the outside factors. If you can understand the dealer and the
outside forces impacting his pricing decisions, you will be in the best
position to negotiate your best deal.

BKH

[Hollywood]

I haven't used the CC dealer once, and have had great service from the Sanger, Mastercraft dealer and cant complain a bit. They dont care what type of boat I have, they know that the CC is a quality product and are happy to take care of any needs that I have. Sorry to all those who are loyal to their dealers but to me a boat dealer is a boat dealer and I love my CC and as long as it is taken care of I am happy.

Well said, we are in the same boat. We've only taken the Nautique to a dealer to get serviced one time, and that was because we didn't want to waste the time diagnosing the problem. All this dealer loyalty garbage is getting way out of hand.

[SprintCar39]

bkhallpass.....You hit the nail on the head.