A couple winterization questions... 2000 SAN, 5.7 Impeller, ballast, shower, heater?

[SoldTheBayliner]

OK, I've been searching and reading threads, and I can't find a couple things...

This is my first time winterizing this boat...I had an I/O before this and always did it myself, but There are obviously some big differences. I've only owned it a couple months, so I'm not familiar with it yet. I'm in the sierras in California... we will see a couple of weeks with high temps around 20F... lows in the zero range. Want to do it right... I have read this, by the way: http://www.planetnautique.com/vb3/co...res-GM-Engines
Very helpful, but I still have questions.

I'll try to ask clear questions..

1. What is the pump (?) thingy in the main water intake line after the filter/strainer, and before the engine? It's mounted low on the starboard side...the main water line goes in one end and out the other on the way to the water pump, and there is at least one other line coming out of it and I'm not sure where it goes. If I unhook the main water line on the strainer/filter side, is that enough?

2. Is it better to suck antifreeze out of a bucket, or just pour in the lines at the thermostat housing? I'm leaning towards sucking, since it will get in places like that mystery thingy in #1.

3. disconnect brass plugs at both ends of exhaust manifolds to drain, or are the forward ones enough? Again, if I'm sucking antifreeze in, some residual water is no big deal, yeah?

4. V-Drive unit... this is foreign territory. what is going on there? Is there a plug? Where do those two big lines go? It looks like they just do a big lap around the engine. Do they go to the water pump? Just pull them and let them drain? Or just pull one? Where is the low point in those lines? Will antifreeze get sucked into those?

5. Heater lines and shower lines... do they look different? There is a blue line going to one v-drive unit line (cold shower?), and two red lines (big and small) on the starboard drain plug at the engine block. There are also grey lines everywhere (ballast vents, shower line?) I understand I want to disconnect both heater lines and blow out with compressed air... need to locate both of them for that. Then do I want to get antifreeze through that whole system? Help locating both heater lines would be huge. Is the actual heater core up under the dash?

6. for the shower, if I can locate the lines, I can just disconnect and use the shower pump to suck antifreeze through, right? First one, then the other, with only one valve open at a time? Help locating those lines?

7. Should I remove the impeller or leave it in if I'm filling the engine with antifreeze? As far as removing it, just loosen whatever pulley gives me slack on the belt, and pull the water pump?

8. I pulled both pumps out of the ballast system because they're not working. Is that enough to make that system winter-safe? I also opened both vents...so everything should have drained out, right?


Thanks... I wasn't thinking about this part when I got the boat with all the fancy options

[DanielC]

1. The pump thingy is the raw water pump. Your old I/O had one, it was probably in the lower unit. The raw water pump has a rubber impeller inside it, you probably should get a new impeller for next year unless you know the history of the boat. A new belt would not be a bad idea, again because you do not know the history of the boat.

2. I would suggest draining the engine, shower, and heater first, and then sucking the antifreeze back in with the engine. The antifreeze cannot be diluted much, or it loses its freeze protection. The anti freeze cannot be left in the water strainer, either. Over the winter it could do bad things to the clear plastic cup, and you will have to get a new one.

3. On the engine there are usually five plugs to drain the water out. Two in the exhaust manifolds, two in the block, and one in the front, in a low spot by the circulating water pump.

4. The V-drive has a plug near the top, facing to the engine, that drains the water out of the cooling jacket for the V-drive. Drain it too before sucking antifreeze into the engine.

5. Heater and shower. Disconnect the hoses from the engine. The heater has 5/8 id hoses, and when both hoses are disconnected, blow air through one until the water is pushed out the other. Disconnect the shower, and drain it too, by running the shower. The actual heater core in in front of the panel the driver rests their feet on. if you ever get hot water at the drivers feet, the core has a leak, and you will have to replace it.

6. The shower hoses are usually 3/8 id, one red, one blue. The red hose comes off the engine somewhere, and the blue hose is plumbed into the system somewhere between the raw water pump, and the engine. This might be the blue hose by the V-drive.

7. After you are done with draining the engine, and accessories, and have sucked antifreeze into the engine, remove the raw water pump, and take the impeller out of it. Save the old one, and put a new one in for spring. 2000 SAN, you probably have a Ford GT-40 engine. The raw water pump will go on upside down. if you put it on upside down, it will not pump water into the engine, it will try to suck water out fo the engine block. There is a slotted screw head on the side of the raw water pump body. Note what direction this screw faces. usually, toward the engine block. Put the raw water pump on the same way it came off.

8. if you have removed the hoses from the bottom of the ballast tanks, you should be able to use a Wet-Dry shop vacuum to suck any remaining water out of the tanks.

I also recommend you change the engine oil and filter. With Ford GT-40, I use Valvoline VR-1 40 W racing oil, and Motorcraft FL1-A oil filter. Do not use orange oil filters.

The shifting transmission should have it's fluid changed. Dexron 3 is the fluid to use.

The V-drive should also have it's oil changed. I believe you use a 30 weight oil to refill it.

You need to run Fuel stabilizer in the engine before you start to winterize the engine. I use the red Sta-Bil, at two times the normal mixture.

You also need to fog the engine cylinders with fogging oil when doing the winter lay up. do this after the engine oil change, after test running the engine, and checking for oil leaks.

Maybe it is because I am familiar with inboard boats, but I think they are easier to winterize than an I/O boat.

My 2,000 post.

[Quinner]

Great direction from Daniel, as always!

Couple things I would add, if you in fact have a Chevy 350 (5.7) as you indicated, there may only be 2 drain plugs in the engine block and 1 may be used for the How water supply to the shower (red line). On the later model 350's the other plug is where the knock sensor is located, not sure if that wouild be the case on a 00' year block, if so just remove the knock sensor to drain that side of the block, re-install sensor snug and do not put any sealer, etc. on the threads, just screw it back in.

I simply run the shower to drain it, just be sure you open both the hot and cold valves when doing so. To drain the heater core I only remove 1 of the hoses to it and with the drain plug removed by the circ pump, blow (lung power) until all water has drained.

Also a good idea to drain the gas at the bottom of the Fuel Filter in case it has any water, would change the filter also unless you are certain it does not need replacing.

[Sac Surfer]

I have a PCM EX 343 raw water cooled v-drive, if I suck RV antifreeze about 7-10 gallons through the motor & cooling system via the strainer is it necessary to drain all the block, transmission and heater? I would think that the cooling system would push out any water out an back fill with antifreeze? I don't see dealers removing the block drains and knock sensors on the motor.

[SoldTheBayliner]

Awesome, thanks guys. Much confusion with the circulating pump and the raw water pump. It's a PCM 5.7, not a GT 40, and yes, the knock sensor is the drain plug on the port side. On the starboard side, there's a brass Y at the drain with two red lines coming off... guessing one heater, one shower. I have a compressor...assuming I can disconnect both of these and just blow it out. Should I just leave the heater core and shower dry, or re-fill with antifreeze?

Sounds like I found all the drains. I see why people replace these hard ballast tanks with bags. Everything is a pain to reach!

[DanielC]

Every dealer does things a little different. The goal of a dealer is to get the job done, good enough, and to beat the flat rate for the job.

It also depends on where you live. I live in Western Oregon, we see a lot of rain, but rarely do temperatures go below freezing for more than about two weeks, total over the winter, In Minnesota, winterization is a lot more critical.

Sorry, I missed the 5.7 engine designation. Use 15-40 oil in it. I do not know if that engine has a roller lifer camshaft or a flat tappet camshaft, you need to find this out. Modern oils designed for roller lifter camshafts, (most are) are not the best for a flat tappet camshaft.

[SoldTheBayliner]

Oh, one more question... where is the transmission cooler? Same as V-drive water jacket? As long as I'm asking dumb questions, I might as well keep it up...
does the transmission cooler drain through the engine when you open the plugs, or is there another line to pull?

And I've already drained it, but I just had a thought... if that's the hot shower line coming off of the engine block drain plug, could you theoretically drain the engine using the shower pump, just by opening the hot valve and blasting away with the shower until it ran dry?

[DanielC]

The transmission cooler is somewhere in the hoses between the water strainer, and the raw water pump. Your V-drive cooling are also somewhere in this "daisy chain" of stuff.

If you just used the shower pump to get water out of the block, it would only drain one side of the engine block. It is better to pull all the plugs, or disconnect all the hoses that were added to plumb accessories.

[SoldTheBayliner]

There is nothing between the strainer and the raw water pump... but there is a line coming off of the pump itself. Could this be going to the transmission cooler?

[DanielC]

Look again.
I believe in a SAN, the raw water comes from the through hull fitting, close to V-drive, up to raw water strainer, and then back down. Follow this hose. Every inch of it. Just because it is close to the engine on one side, and you can see the other end of the hose at the front, or back of the engine, does not mean there is not a transmission cooler in it. There are also two hoses coming off the shifting transmission, one on the top of the transmission, and one that goes back to the bottom of the transmission. This transmission is between the engine, and the V-drive. The hoses from the top and bottom of the transmission go to the transmission oil cooler. I am pretty sure it is in there somewhere.

[SoldTheBayliner]

Will do, thanks. Assuming if it's like that, it will be a T fitting in the line. Will disconnecting the line on the strainer side of the raw water pump drain the lower transmission line then?, or do I need to remove the lower line from the transmission itself? I only ask because I already removed the line on the strainer side of the raw water pump...

[Quinner]

Sac Surfer,

I would drain everything first, I have the same motor and it is pretty simple to drain. Run Shower pump if equipped or remove drain plug on that side, remove knock sensor, 2 manifold brass bolt/plugs, drain bolt on U fitting near water pump and 1 heater line if equipped.
If you don't have a torque wrench for the knock sensor just tighten it snug.

Bayliner,

I have always used the shower pump to drain that side of the block (per say), if you use the pump first until it runs dry then remove the knock sensor, you will then clearly see the pump will not drain the entire block. I have always used Lung power to blow out the heater lines, if you use the compressor use low pressure so as not to damage the heater core.

[Sac Surfer]

Quinner,

Thanks for the response, I did drain the heater core by disconnecting the 2 red lines on the starboard side of the motor, the barbs made them difficult to remove. Did you drain the transmission? mine is way on the bottom from the power plus transmission, and I don't see anyone undoing that one. Also how are you guys getting RV antifreeze into the ballast tanks? My 2010 210 seems to have check valves on the thru-hull fittings. I tried to fill by removing the hose clamps on the Jebsco's and pouring some down there, but it went slowly.

The oil change, with an extractor & remote filter is a breeze, but I didn't get the full 5 & 1/2 quarts in there, prolly about 5 &1/4 an I was just below the full line on the stick after the oil pressure was reading on the gauge.

[Sac Surfer]

I sucked about 8 gallons of rv antifreeze through the system once it was all back together. The reason I don't think the dealers drain becuase I don't see them poring RV antifreeze into the t-stat hose. Seems alot easyier to jsut the impeller an pull it all out of a cooler (assuming you have a flush kit installed).

The manual stats :
"Remove the large circulating pump hose from
the thermostat housing. Pour the mixture of
antifreeze and water, properly mixed to protect
the engine to the lowest temperatures that it
will be exposed to, into the circulating pump
hose and fi ll the engine block. Pour additional
antifreeze solution into the hoses connected to
the exhaust manifolds."

[SoldTheBayliner]

So if you're going by the manual, no antifreeze is going to get into the heater core... Anyone here just drain the heater core and not fill with antifreeze, and have you ever run into a problem with this? I'm assuming that by running the engine and sucking antifreeze using the impeller, you're pushing it up through the heater core...which the manual apparently does not deem necessary.

Also, another question...if I suck antifreeze and then remove the pump/impeller, how much antifreeze is going to come pouring back out? just what's in the lines going to either end of the pump, or do I need to plug those lines with something for the duration of storage?

AND...for future reference: it would be totally safe to use the shower to pump the water out of the starboard side of the block without removing the plug? Then just remove the knock sensor/plug from the other side so both sides get drained? The knock sensor is a whole lot easier to pull, since there are two lines going to the drain plug on the side with the shower line.

AND... Sac Surfer, can you confirm for me which lines are the heater core lines? One goes to the plug in the engine block, where is the other one? I'm assuming the smaller diameter red line at the plug is the hot shower line...