1,450 Pounds More Ballast in 2022 G23 & G25!

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

[QUOTE=scottb7;n637829]"for the life of me cannot understand why they wouldn’t make this an available option. It’s simple, you download the new software and viola, everyone’s smiling again"...

“I am a little confused by this comment. Will the new sac's fill thru additional holes in the bottom of the boat? Will they over flow out additional holes thru the side of the boat? Maybe yes, maybe no. but this does not appear to be just a software change. But maybe you can explain how you characterize as such. There may not be much hardware involved, but there must be some.”

In reference to the confusion, I was simply referencing the software integration into the LINC Panoray for the new ballast system. They said that wouldn’t be an option. I talked about the other stuff in previous posts. I understand how plumbing the ballast works. What I was wanting from Nautique was for them to make a kit available to integrate into my boat and I discussed how I thought this could be possible in previous posts as well.

“would it be a simple kit, maybe. You know, this is what nautique does. They make changes, to new boats and they move forward. It get's more and more irritating as the prices go up. But they have yet to change that "model". that is what they do...they do not get more concerned about this business model as the prices go up... they just don't.”

This wouldn’t be such an issue for me if it hadn’t occurred just one year after the initial hull design change. I actually asked the girl this morning if they pay attention to PlanetNautique Forums and her answer was “yes.” Which tells me they did pay attention to the feedback they were getting on this website, which means they saw the concerns 2021 boat owners had about the lack of ballast and made a change for the subsequent year based on this feedback. The only problem is they completely left out the entire constituency that had this frustration to begin with by not developing a kit for the 2021 boats. Who knows maybe they will. But to be told at this juncture they aren’t is extremely disheartening.

“There is a point, as irritating as it is - where you just - as someone said - you gotta just enjoy your boat and get off these forum's and not look back. It just not healthy, really.”

I still enjoy my boat. Still doesn’t make me any less frustrated by this situation. As you can see from my post count I don’t actually frequent these forums very often But if they are reading these forums, this may be the only way my voice and frustrations are heard. I pale in comparison to your 2,114 posts.

“There is also a reality that the wave and wakes are so beyond the skill levels of every single person, that the discussion is purely academic.”

While this is almost entirely true, it doesn’t change the way resale is impacted by changes like this.

[scottb7]

"for the life of me cannot understand why they wouldn’t make this an available option. It’s simple, you download the new software and viola, everyone’s smiling again"...

I am a little confused by this comment. Will the new sac's fill thru additional holes in the bottom of the boat? Will they over flow out additional holes thru the side of the boat? Maybe yes, maybe no. but this does not appear to be just a software change. But maybe you can explain how you characterize as such. There may not be much hardware involved, but there must be some.

would it be a simple kit, maybe. You know, this is what nautique does. They make changes, to new boats and they move forward. It get's more and more irritating as the prices go up. But they have yet to change that "model". that is what they do...they do not get more concerned about this business model as the prices go up... they just don't.

There is a point, as irritating as it is - where you just - as someone said - you gotta just enjoy your boat and get off these forum's and not look back. It just not healthy, really.

There is also a reality that the wave and wakes are so beyond the skill levels of every single person, that the discussion is purely academic.

"fit a variety of budgets"....seriously, what the top 1% in the u.s. and the top 1.11%? huh?

"if i was being honest with myself..." i feel you, even though you know it coming it is still irritating as all get out with the $ it cost...i get it....

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

Yeah I wasn’t specifically replying to you or anyone else but you are welcome to your opinion. These (nautiques) are awesome boats with great features and highly customizable to fit a variety of budgets, built with quality by a generally highly regarded, high-character company. I doubt they intentionally misled you, I agree it is unfortunate timing There is always gonna be a better boat the year after one buys a new boat.

Whether they intentionally misled me or not doesn’t replace how I feel about the situation, specifically as it relates to who I spoke with. I thought I was buying the better boat with the hull design change. I love everything about the boat except the ballast. However, the ballast option was a big deal and as I mentioned earlier, I had planned on adding it myself initially and was okay with that. But to see this drastic of a change just a few months later and then be told there won’t be any way to integrate it into my current system is a tough pill to swallow. And I guess if I’m being honest with myself I do believe they knew this was coming when I spoke with them.

[Tigerxj]

I would have to say you have painted with a broad brush of uninformed information here.

I did ride behind the boat before buying it. The trial run was with lead. I was just hoping for more ballast and a system that would integrate into my existing ballast system.

Yeah I wasn’t specifically replying to you or anyone else but you are welcome to your opinion. These (nautiques) are awesome boats with great features and highly customizable to fit a variety of budgets, built with quality by a generally highly regarded, high-character company. I doubt they intentionally misled you, I agree it is unfortunate timing There is always gonna be a better boat the year after one buys a new boat.

[blufly]

Ask for Ben where? At Fatsac?

Yip @ Fatsac - go onto there site and email them - quote the product codes above - they are custom so there is lead time to manufacture but IMO this is the best option if you have to regularly tow as lead is problematic

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

I dunno, who spends $185-200K + on a boat without riding behind it? almost every wake/surf boat out there has some sort of piggyback system or DIY with pumps and bags to get additional ballast. I think 21 owners will be fine. Same thing with the P owners. who cares if your tower is available on another boat. enjoy the **** out of your boat, that's why you bought it. who cares what anyone else has, or what other options certain models get? I wish manufacturers - cars and boats, would let you order a la cart, instead of packages (I understand why to streamline assembly), but I think its awesome Nautique is trickling down some of these cool options to other boats. I see the paragon as a test platform to see if people will "go for it". When they did, Nautique realized they could offer some of these options on the G, and you can get someone to spend another $10-15K.

Where would you go besides Nautique?

We surf a used 2017 GS20 with factory ballast and have a blast. basically no options besides the heater, and it is 10 times the boat the 2004 SN206 was. I think we just need some perspective with how blessed we are to get to complain about these things.


On another point, I too worry about the pushback from the potential issues from these bigger and bigger surf waves.

I would have to say you have painted with a broad brush of uninformed information here.

1. You can look at any one of my posts on this matter and see that I was disappointed they didn’t offer more ballast with the 2021 models. However, I also conceded that adding lead rectified much of the problem and I currently have 800lbs and the wave is sick. However, I would prefer not to tow the lead around all over the countryside if possible.
2. I actually called the factory last year to see if I could have extra ballast installed from the factory and they informed me this wasn’t an option, implying they didn’t have the ability to do this yet. Given the timing of this release, I no longer believe what was communicated. I realize they’re a business and need to turn a profit, however given how adamant I was about wanting the additional ballast, the right thing to do at that time may have been to kindly suggest I wait for 2022. I was polite and courteous every time I spoke with someone last year. My conversation this morning was a little more agitated.
3. Through various conversations before purchasing my boat, it became more evident that even if they were going to add ballast down the road it would likely be an option to retroactively fit the system into the 2021 model, given the hull design is identical. Similar to the iPhone software update analogy used above (which made me chuckle as I said the same thing of my wife), I for the life of me cannot understand why they wouldn’t make this an available option. It’s simple, you download the new software and viola, everyone’s smiling again. When I pay this much for an item I expect the product to be able to make small adaptations, such as software upgrades, that allow for integrating changes such as ballast addition in the future.You shouldn’t have to buy a whole new boat 2 months later to make this change.

If this had happened 2-3 years later then I could have believed at least 90% of what I was told. But to have this happen 2 months after taking delivery of my boat makes it a tough pill to swallow. I did ride behind the boat before buying it. The trial run was with lead. I was just hoping for more ballast and a system that would integrate into my existing ballast system.

In regards to the size of he waves, I was on the lake this last weekend and two yachts drove buy, both of which put out ocean sized waves compared to the relative ripple of my boat. A lot of people have an agenda when it comes to anything motorsports and will jump at every opportunity to push this agenda. Wakesurf boats are just he latest target.

[Johnny_Rock]

Hi guys with the 21’ G - FATsac have a replacement factory bag for 21 model G25/23 - it’s priced as a custom bag and isn’t listed on there site - you just swap them out for the factory ones- I had ordered these for my 22’G but cancelled the order on Sat morning when the Nautique 22’ model updates came thru
they are 1450’s - so basically the same as the new supplement but are just larger bags an will run off 1 pump - looks like the 22 will have additional bags and hopefully pumps also to speed up the fill/empty process
C1312 port C1313 StB are the product codes and are $325 each - ask for Ben - I had gone down this road knowing that the New G was under weighted and I have to travel to get to lake so lead isn’t an option for me
This new weight is pushing the G into P weight territory so I’m glad I have ordered with the ZZ8 and would expect more being optioned this way
I325

Ask for Ben where? At Fatsac?

[Johnny_Rock]

I dunno, who spends $185-200K + on a boat without riding behind it? almost every wake/surf boat out there has some sort of piggyback system or DIY with pumps and bags to get additional ballast. I think 21 owners will be fine. Same thing with the P owners. who cares if your tower is available on another boat. enjoy the **** out of your boat, that's why you bought it. who cares what anyone else has, or what other options certain models get? I wish manufacturers - cars and boats, would let you order a la cart, instead of packages (I understand why to streamline assembly), but I think its awesome Nautique is trickling down some of these cool options to other boats. I see the paragon as a test platform to see if people will "go for it". When they did, Nautique realized they could offer some of these options on the G, and you can get someone to spend another $10-15K.

Where would you go besides Nautique?

We surf a used 2017 GS20 with factory ballast and have a blast. basically no options besides the heater, and it is 10 times the boat the 2004 SN206 was. I think we just need some perspective with how blessed we are to get to complain about these things.


On another point, I too worry about the pushback from the potential issues from these bigger and bigger surf waves.

Well said all the way around--especially 1/ about the piggyback systems; 2/ where else would you go and 3/ on the pushback with the bigger and bigger waves. (Love the Big Wave though!) Teach your kids to appreciate what they have and to be respectful!

Guessing that the lack of ballast in the '21 was a direct result of the pushback you're speaking of.

[Tigerxj]

I dunno, who spends $185-200K + on a boat without riding behind it? almost every wake/surf boat out there has some sort of piggyback system or DIY with pumps and bags to get additional ballast. I think 21 owners will be fine. Same thing with the P owners. who cares if your tower is available on another boat. enjoy the **** out of your boat, that's why you bought it. who cares what anyone else has, or what other options certain models get? I wish manufacturers - cars and boats, would let you order a la cart, instead of packages (I understand why to streamline assembly), but I think its awesome Nautique is trickling down some of these cool options to other boats. I see the paragon as a test platform to see if people will "go for it". When they did, Nautique realized they could offer some of these options on the G, and you can get someone to spend another $10-15K.

Where would you go besides Nautique?

We surf a used 2017 GS20 with factory ballast and have a blast. basically no options besides the heater, and it is 10 times the boat the 2004 SN206 was. I think we just need some perspective with how blessed we are to get to complain about these things.


On another point, I too worry about the pushback from the potential issues from these bigger and bigger surf waves.

[William_Zane]

Well I called Nautique this morning to get it directly from the horses mouth and unfortunately if you were looking forward to having the new ballast system added to your 2021, this won’t be an option. Her exact words were, “unfortunately the new system will not be able to be retrofitted into the previous model year.” I do believe this was a terrible decision from a customer service standpoint and is going to isolate 2021 model year owners. Just like a lot of P owners are ticked about the new changes, I’m believe there will be a lot of people that are angry they won’t have the option to add a system that’s configurable with Linc Panoray. I can see them losing some customers long term over this one, though the lady I spoke with didn’t seem to care that much. I realize it wasn’t her decision to make and I’m sure she’s very nice but this was a bad marketing/customer service move and frankly puts a black eye on the Nautique brand from where I’m sitting. You want the upgrade, sell your 2021 and get a 2022....it’s that simple ♂️.

That's truly unfortunate. I still however find that hard to believe that the Linc Panoray system couldn't be updated; not entirely different from putting the new IOS software on older iPhone versions. They had to know they were adding this ballast well before the 21' went into production so to completely dismiss this shows the company isn't looking out for their customers who are investing hundred's of thousands dollars with them.

[bird_dog0347]

Well I called Nautique this morning to get it directly from the horses mouth and unfortunately if you were looking forward to having the new ballast system added to your 2021, this won’t be an option. Her exact words were, “unfortunately the new system will not be able to be retrofitted into the previous model year.” I do believe this was a terrible decision from a customer service standpoint and is going to isolate 2021 model year owners. Just like a lot of P owners are ticked about the new changes, I’m believe there will be a lot of people that are angry they won’t have the option to add a system that’s configurable with Linc Panoray. I can see them losing some customers long term over this one, though the lady I spoke with didn’t seem to care that much. I realize it wasn’t her decision to make and I’m sure she’s very nice but this was a bad marketing/customer service move and frankly puts a black eye on the Nautique brand from where I’m sitting. You want the upgrade, sell your 2021 and get a 2022....it’s that simple ♂️.

That is unfortunate... I am still happy with the P23 and have "No Ragrets" as there a still quite a few things unique to it, and the wave is fantastic, but I can see how 21 G23/5 owners will be very upset by this news.

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

Lots of questions: What’s the process for adding add’l ballast—fish them in through existing holes in the floor? How do you know they’re seated okay?

We tested a ‘21 last fall and learned instantly that the stock wake was not as good as our ‘16 with 500 pounds of lead. Second time out, the dealer loaded it with two 750s in the rear lockers and it was almost too much. Thus it makes sense that Gregg M on here has found that the surf wake on a ‘21 G with 800 extra pounds closely matches the stock wave of a ‘21 P which (he says) is as good as it gets.

I’m with FireBreathingRubb. Don’t care about telescoping tower—prefer the manual operation. Also wouldn’t really care if add’l ballast status was synced on the display—I’m no plumber, but if it discharged above the water line—you’d be able to hear when it stopped (and was empty.) Don’t really recall looking at the screen on my ‘16 to see when the tanks are full—just shut them off when they start flowing out the side.

Well I called Nautique this morning to get it directly from the horses mouth and unfortunately if you were looking forward to having the new ballast system added to your 2021, this won’t be an option. Her exact words were, “unfortunately the new system will not be able to be retrofitted into the previous model year.” I do believe this was a terrible decision from a customer service standpoint and is going to isolate 2021 model year owners. Just like a lot of P owners are ticked about the new changes, I’m believe there will be a lot of people that are angry they won’t have the option to add a system that’s configurable with Linc Panoray. I can see them losing some customers long term over this one, though the lady I spoke with didn’t seem to care that much. I realize it wasn’t her decision to make and I’m sure she’s very nice but this was a bad marketing/customer service move and frankly puts a black eye on the Nautique brand from where I’m sitting. You want the upgrade, sell your 2021 and get a 2022....it’s that simple ♂️.

[Johnny_Rock]

Lots of questions: What’s the process for adding add’l ballast—fish them in through existing holes in the floor? How do you know they’re seated okay?

We tested a ‘21 last fall and learned instantly that the stock wake was not as good as our ‘16 with 500 pounds of lead. Second time out, the dealer loaded it with two 750s in the rear lockers and it was almost too much. Thus it makes sense that Gregg M on here has found that the surf wake on a ‘21 G with 800 extra pounds closely matches the stock wave of a ‘21 P which (he says) is as good as it gets.

I’m with FireBreathingRubb. Don’t care about telescoping tower—prefer the manual operation. Also wouldn’t really care if add’l ballast status was synced on the display—I’m no plumber, but if it discharged above the water line—you’d be able to hear when it stopped (and was empty.) Don’t really recall looking at the screen on my ‘16 to see when the tanks are full—just shut them off when they start flowing out the side.

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

Nautique should have learned from Ford in 2010/2011... They introduced the new Mustang body but kept the 4.6L 3 Valve engine, then in 2011 (announced only a few months after the new car came out) they put the 5.0 Coyote engine in the same car basically making the 2010 GT a bastard that no one wanted and resale went to rock bottom. Nautique needs to sell a supplemental ballast kit (at a reasonable cost) to 2021 G23/G25 owners that brings it to the same spec with a software update to the Linc or they will orphan the entire 2021 MY for the G23/G25 from a resale perspective.

I essentially expected this for the 2022 model year and still went all in on the 2021 for a few reasons. The wave on the 21 is far more customizable than my previous G23 model. I like that I can tone it down and soften it up for skim style surfing and for the kids. I’ve also spoken with my dealer, who’s also a good friend and he is very much under the impression Nautique is going to offer this as an update/upgrade to the 2021 models. We talked it over and this very thought process may have played a role in changing the battery and electrical configuration for the 2021 G23/G25 hull design. I’m not privy on all the electrical terminology but essentially if they were going to design the 2021 models to be compatible with future ballast upgrades; meaning they would be fully integrated into the Linc Panoray system they’d have to have place to plug it in without having to drill holes all over the boat. The way the new electrical system is configured this would make it much easier to do, permitting the option is in fact wired in and ready to go. Furthermore, by only having the one battery present under the hatch, there is now room to add additional pumps. This is simply conjecture at this juncture, however it would make sense and my dealer also seemed to be in agreement. If not, then I’ll just add my own at some point. I couldn’t care less about the telescoping tower. My preference is a manual tower for a wide variety of reasons.

[bird_dog0347]

2021 G we tested was definitely under-ballasted. This means 2021 are duds.

Nautique should have learned from Ford in 2010/2011... They introduced the new Mustang body but kept the 4.6L 3 Valve engine, then in 2011 (announced only a few months after the new car came out) they put the 5.0 Coyote engine in the same car basically making the 2010 GT a bastard that no one wanted and resale went to rock bottom. Nautique needs to sell a supplemental ballast kit (at a reasonable cost) to 2021 G23/G25 owners that brings it to the same spec with a software update to the Linc or they will orphan the entire 2021 MY for the G23/G25 from a resale perspective.