Is it time to give up on Nautique?

[hal2814]

Inclined to agree on the electronics front. There are still brands out there with minimal electronics if that’s your thing. But even “minimal” is a relative term. I remember back when EFI was first starting to become common in boats. All the moaning and wailing about how it’s a bad idea. Turns out it does just fine. Same with electronic ignition before that. Eventually the fancy systems we have now will just be the new norm.

[gonefishin5555]

I agree with what Nautique Jeff says. If you follow the board I don’t think the number of new boat owners having catastrophic failures is very many. What I would do in your case is the following. Have the stupid cup holders removed from your boat and replaced with non lighted ones Get the underwater light replaced with something more reliable. I would ask for a partial refund based on the number of months during your boating season that your boat was unavailable for use. So if your boating season is 6 months and your boat is out of service 3 months then that’s 50%. They need to refund you based on the boat depreciation(ignore covid prices). Ask to be reimbursed for the tows and the lost vacation. If you keep the boat I would ask for all replacement parts to be shipped via 1 day shipping until your warranty period ends. Insist on having cuts to the front of the line for service at your dealer. If the boat breaks on the weekend you just drop the boat off Monday morning for repair no questions asked and the dealer agrees to full diagnosis in 48 hours. I would definitely ask for an extra 2 years on the warranty because you weren’t able to use the boat for an extended period of time. Give them the option to take the boat back and refund you the money. They can probably sell it used right now and not lose much and they they get rid of a headache.

Trying to get service from the dealer is the most frustrating thing to me. The demand is super high during boating season, the parts and labor are expensive. It took two weeks to get a part delivered on my repair. The boat sat outside and got dirty. Overall I like my boat I’ve been boating 30 years I can tell most of it is well made and thought out. Paying 200k for a boat doesn’t protect it from scratches and dings from use. I see the arguments about the tech in the boat but when it works it’s all really nice.

[Nautiquehunter]

I agree with what Nautique Jeff says. If you follow the board I don’t think the number of new boat owners having catastrophic failures is very many. What I would do in your case is the following. Have the stupid cup holders removed from your boat and replaced with non lighted ones Get the underwater light replaced with something more reliable. I would ask for a partial refund based on the number of months during your boating season that your boat was unavailable for use. So if your boating season is 6 months and your boat is out of service 3 months then that’s 50%. They need to refund you based on the boat depreciation(ignore covid prices). Ask to be reimbursed for the tows and the lost vacation. If you keep the boat I would ask for all replacement parts to be shipped via 1 day shipping until your warranty period ends. Insist on having cuts to the front of the line for service at your dealer. If the boat breaks on the weekend you just drop the boat off Monday morning for repair no questions asked and the dealer agrees to full diagnosis in 48 hours. I would definitely ask for an extra 2 years on the warranty because you weren’t able to use the boat for an extended period of time. Give them the option to take the boat back and refund you the money. They can probably sell it used right now and not lose much and they they get rid of a headache.

Trying to get service from the dealer is the most frustrating thing to me. The demand is super high during boating season, the parts and labor are expensive. It took two weeks to get a part delivered on my repair. The boat sat outside and got dirty. Overall I like my boat I’ve been boating 30 years I can tell most of it is well made and thought out. Paying 200k for a boat doesn’t protect it from scratches and dings from use. I see the arguments about the tech in the boat but when it works it’s all really nice.

What dealer or manufacture would agree to your demands?? I think its the one just the other side of LA LA Land.

We are not talking about gauges or pitot tubes here these are high tech boats with high tech problems you won't be able to fix yourself. If the manufacture doesn't support that system just like ProTech or hour gauges you will be SOL. I am not saying they are bad boats I am saying they are like BMW and Mercedes big dollar, high tech cars that drop like a rock after the warranty goes out . Of coarse if you only keep it a year you will never have that problem. I think the reason the resale on the older models is high is the low maintenance and reliably and the fact that the virus has shut down almost every other source of entertainment. I suspect you will be able to get some smoking hot deals in the next few years when the Wallys find out that owning a boat isn't as much fun as they thought.

[Interjon]

I said there would be a lot of apologists here. I have bought 15 cars in a row with price tags similar to these boats. Ask me how many have gone back within the first year with a problem, any problem? That answer is 0. How many in the first three years, much less 6 months, have had a drive train problem? Again, zero.

I anticipate a response similar to, "you cannot compare a high production motor vehicle to a boat . . ." Sure you can, and I have 100 reasons why to every why not that will no doubt be posted.

[hal2814]

Apologist or not, there’s still the question of where exactly you intend to go from Nautique. You can have all of the expectations you want, but who is going to meet them? Go check out the other brand forums. Things like this happen in all of them. I wouldn’t blame anyone from walking away from a brand after bad experiences with that brand. But the grass probably isn’t greener on the other side. It may feel that way though if they don’t get unlucky a second time.

[cwglee]

It's nice when companies take great care of existing customers rather than focus more on attracting new ones. I believe the former takes care of the latter better than any sleek marketing campaign.

[CradGen2]

I want to chime in on this one. I agree with NHunter and some with Jeff. As long as boats have their transferable warranty left they hold their value. I just sold my 2016 Malibu 23 LSV. Still had 2 years on the warranty left. Everything I had fixed under warranty was minor. Never left me stranded and the one weekend it wasn’t ready the dealer let me use a new one for the weekend.

I just went back to a 1997 super sport and I had a 1998 sport. The super sport has a GT40 in it and the sport a HO carb. I don’t want all the new bells and whistles in these boats. Sure they are great for 5 years but once warranty is up good luck. Plus how long will parts be available. I have a 23 yo boat that I can still fix and should be for a while.

Axis has something going with there limited electronic boats. I wish the other big three would take notice.

I wish I had my 2008 210 back. Perfect combo of electronics and performance.

[MTRBTR]

If we are going to have all these fancy electronics, I think the whole control unit should be your iPad. Download the app, Mount it on the dash and plug it in. Everything could be controlled from that. When the iPad craps out get a new one and plug it in. Take it out of the boat at the end of the day if you want.

[SilentSeven]

... I don't want all the new bells and whistles in these boats. Sure they are great for 5 years but once warranty is up good luck. Plus how long will parts be available.

Yeah, how the industry deals with post warranty support, dealer enablement and parts availability is going to be an interesting story. The mechanical stuff is not the worry, it's all the curated low volume electronic stuff that's the worry. We already have interesting and problematic anecdotes like the Faria box NLA problem and $4000 replacement linq touchscreens. I personally would be super hesitant to own one of these new e-ships past the warranty date...but maybe that's just my cautious self....

....Axis has something going with there limited electronic boats. I wish the other big three would take notice.

Interesting...wasn't aware of this. Will have to take a look.

[hal2814]

If we are going to have all these fancy electronics, I think the whole control unit should be your iPad. Download the app, Mount it on the dash and plug it in. Everything could be controlled from that. When the iPad craps out get a new one and plug it in. Take it out of the boat at the end of the day if you want.

That’s the approach WakeTractor is taking. Except they’re using Android probably because they’re too cheap to spring for an Apple Developer license. I’m not sure in Nautique’s case how much of the cost is in the LCD or how often the LCD itself is the culprit of a failed LINC module. At worst case you could tear it down, get the model number of the screen they use, and order a direct replacement for hundreds of dollars instead of thousands if its just the display that goes belly up.

[bturner]

Android is open source and going to be much easier to deal with. With iOS you'd be right back to $5K screens only this time the money will be going to Apple.

A guy on the MasterCraft forum that does robotics and industrial controllers for a living tracked down the modules that were being used for a few years in the MC boats. The interesting part is that the units are not just a display but a programmable controller. All the features like ballast control, tab control, speed control are all programmed into the controller using the information provided and sent to the components attached to the CAN Bus. The programming is the secret sauce the manufactures are providing for their systems.

I believe in these "newer" systems the "LINC" system is just that, the CAN Bus hub/switch. I know when my buddy upgraded his MC to Zero Off there were not parts, just code that was updated/uploaded to his controller.

I believe the system they were talking about was from a company called Murphy. I found a replacement display for a panel that looks very similar to what's in the Nautiques. This particular one looks to be just a display but other have full logic systems with processors and memory much like a PC.

http://www.murcal.com/Catalog/PowerV...450-with-Video

Some of these also look familiar.....

http://www.murcal.com/murphy/murphy_powerview.html

So I downloaded and started reading the manual, the PV780 really looks like the Nautique system and can be had on the street for just under $1900. Better still is that if you could get or save the code on your existing device there's a USB port and instructions on how to do the code load in the manual. Very interesting.....

[G_WaTT]

NJeff, I think you're in an awesome, but unique position. I didn't have any issues with my boat the first season either. This all happened 2nd and 3rd season. I for sure do not blame Nautique for putting in new tech, but I definitely blame them when it doesn't work or isn't reliable. I sprung for the cup holders because I thought it looked cool, but no one told me it was an option that may cause a fire in the boat. The wiring harness is a known issue, but there was no recall and they don't even bother to keep them in stock. It would be a much easier pill to swallow if I didn't have to wait over a month for repairs.

[SilentSeven]

I believe the system they were talking about was from a company called Murphy. I found a replacement display for a panel that looks very similar to what's in the Nautiques. This particular one looks to be just a display but other have full logic systems with processors and memory much like a PC.

....the PV780 really looks like the Nautique system and can be had on the street for just under $1900. Better still is that if you could get or save the code on your existing device there's a USB port and instructions on how to do the code load in the manual. Very interesting.....

This is good sleuthing but also not surprising. Nautique doesn't want to be in the business of engineering this equipment from scratch, they want to select best in class and then add value by developing Nautique specific feature sets.

At the same time, this also complicates the replacement supply chain as I suspect Nautique only carries agreements with the MFG to continue to supply the unit for at least the warranty period and maybe for some period beyond that. After that, you're at the mercy of that MFG to continue to support the unit (or not...as we have seen with Faria). Nautique likely has little say in that process.

If the industry can move to plug and play components that are not MFG specific (CAN bus anyone?), avoid proprietary hardware add-ons and support portable code (wait...i can hack my boat?), there might be a path forward. Not sure there are sufficient motivations for them to do this unless the buying community screams loud enough. And since many original buyers sell their boat before the warranty is up, Nautique would have to decide to listen to the secondary market...and I'm not sure that's an audience that matters enough.

Honestly, hard to see a clear path forward that works for all parties....

[H2O]

Nautique uses Murphy. Malibu uses Medallion. Murphy has proven to be more reliable over time.

[NautiqueJeff]

NJeff, I think you're in an awesome, but unique position. I didn't have any issues with my boat the first season either. This all happened 2nd and 3rd season. I for sure do not blame Nautique for putting in new tech, but I definitely blame them when it doesn't work or isn't reliable. I sprung for the cup holders because I thought it looked cool, but no one told me it was an option that may cause a fire in the boat. The wiring harness is a known issue, but there was no recall and they don't even bother to keep them in stock. It would be a much easier pill to swallow if I didn't have to wait over a month for repairs.

G_WaTT I am not at all disagreeing that your situation should be dealt with by Nautique. I don't disagree with you at all.

I was just making the point that I don't believe resale will fall due to all of the technology in these boats.

You've definitely had your share of issues!