2021 G23 vs. 2021 Paragon

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • greggmck
    Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
    • Oct 2014
    • 795

    • Bellevue WA

    • 2023 Paragon G23

    #46
    2021 G23 vs. 2021 Paragon - Final Comments

    We have spent 10 days with the Paragon. The boat has 25 total hours, about 16 from our usage and I now have a much better appreciation for the boat. Due to the extremely high demand for demo time we had the 2021 G23 for only one day so I also include a comparison of the two boats where it is appropriate.


    Sitting in the bow of both boats is amazingly comfortable. The bow is wider than the prior G23, in the Paragon the cushions are much thicker, the stitching and the vinyl feel very luxurious. The higher freeboard keeps the bow of both boats virtually immune from large surf waves dipping over the bow, something that one has to be careful to avoid in earlier G23s especially with weight up front. I placed 200 lbs of lead in the bow of the Paragon and it stayed dry and above the surf waves. It is possible to get water over the bow as my 15-year-old daughter proved. She has been driving surf boats for about 3 years and has solid surf driving skills, but her inattentiveness when plowing through a large surf wave from another nearby boat did result in some water over the bow but with proper attention the chances of doing so in the new hull are greatly reduced.

    I also noticed that on a windy day (10 knots of wind) driving into a headwind at a boat speed of about 5-10 knots, the geometry of the hull pushes the reflection of small chop out in front of the boat which the wind can blow back into the bow. I would not be sitting in the bow of our 2020 G23 in such conditions and both the Paragon and 2021 G23 are no different when it comes to windblown spray into the bow at slow speeds. However, at surf or back to dock speeds the new boats ride with the bow higher and are much drier than the prior G23s.

    Moving back to the cockpit the first thing the driver will notice is that when surfing, both boats ride with the bow higher than a prior generation G23. At first this was a surprise to me, but after thinking about this it became obvious why this must be the case. The new hull deploys much larger and taller NSS surf plates than the prior NSS system. The new NSS plates are taller and extend up to the top of the platform, they even produce a small rooster tail on the non-surf side when deployed. These larger plates are responsible for displacing the converging non-surf side wave, yawing the boat, allowing the hull shape to produce that clean surf-side wave. To be effective these taller plates must be in the water. This can only occur when the stern is pushed down lower into the water causing the bow to ride higher than prior Gs. At our surf configuration the bow was only modestly higher than the prior G23 because we surf at 3 or 5 on the wave shaper setting which I believe is effectively the NCRS. I surfed on the non-surf side with the rope and when switching the wave from 0-10 I could not identify any movement in the NSS plates, if it does move it moves in small increments. Yet it is very obvious to notice the bow rise or lower when changing the wave shape number indicating direct engagement of the NCRS plate.

    Driving the new hull is not like driving a very bow high boat like a Centurion or a one with a similar trim tab-based surf system. In these boats I feel like I have to stand to safely see over the bow, especially in the early season when spotting logs or other debris is a real concern. With the surf wave set on 10 the bow of the new hull is highest because the NCRS is 100% retracted allowing the stern to ride lowest creating its monster wave. In that setting I was using a seat cushion to sit on. My kids would use the seat bolster more frequently on the Paragon than we ever did with the prior G23, this is a price of producing that great wave. There is one difference worth noting. The 2021 G23 without any weight sits noticeably higher in the water than the Paragon. The additional weight of the Paragon is obvious when looking at the stern of both boats floating in the water.

    As I mentioned in my prior posts, the 2021 G23 NEEDs extra weight to create a compelling surf wave. We put 900lbs of lead that we removed from our 2020 G23 into the new 2021 G. 550 lbs. went under the port rear flip-up seat and 350 lbs. went under the starboard side seat to mimic the weight of the tower and larger motor in the Paragon. After surfing the weighted G23 I am still struggling to find the words to describe how unbelievably amazing the wave was. It is every bit as good as the Paragon! This hull responds to weight more effectively than any boat I have ever surfed. I believe the best configuration might be to move 200 lbs. from the port side flip-up seat locker into the hinged-up front passenger seat area to soften up the 2021 G23 wave, however time prevented us from evaluating this configuration.

    Both boats were equipped with the studio elite stereo packages. I was one that thought I would NEVER consider paying for the wake sub on the Paragon, because I always thought the four 8.8 JLs in our Gs sounded fantastic. How much better could it be?? Well I was dumbfounded in how awesome the soundstage was behind the Paragon! It sounded like I was in the boat. The kids love it and I was REALLY rocking out on that fantastic wave immersed in that amazing sound stage! It is very, very cool.

    In my experience driving both boats is a joy, the experience is much more relaxing than any other boat I have driven. The seats are extremely comfortable, the throttle and steering wheel positions are efficiently ergonomic, the power steering, standard in both the Paragon and 2021 Gs feels nimble and light, much like autopilot in a Tesla or Mercedes. Just point the boat and provide the occasional subtle adjustment to the steering wheel to stay perfectly on course. The abbreviated windshield in the Paragon makes conversing with a downed rider much easier. The area where the driver reaches over the gunwale to address the rider in the Paragon is padded and comfortable, there is no middle cleat in either boat which I miss.

    Another driving experience I want to share is maneuvering the Paragon and the benefit of a thruster. As I mention in my first review, I have accumulated many thousands of hours driving single screw inboard boats in diverse training conditions. I say this not to brag, but to convey a level of experience that previously led me to believe that there was no scenario where I thought I would need a thruster, until now.

    We keep our boat in the Seattle area in an older and very crowded marina. The canals are narrow, long and we must make two blind 90-degree right hand turns to reach our slip. Twice, when we were maneuvering with a strong 10+ knot wind, a large boat was approaching around the blind corner where there was no room to maneuver, much less turn around with a single screw especially in that much wind. The lower pitch prop of the Paragon reduces the starboard stern walking force, making maneuvering the Paragon that much more challenging. Without the thruster there would not have been sufficient time, room, and control force to avoid a collision with the oncoming boat or the side bulkhead with its large protruding steel support bars. I am firmly convinced that the mass of this boat, its lower pitched prop, its larger freeboard, the wind interaction with the large bimini all conspire to effectively require the use of a thruster in the Paragon. The 2021 G23 was noticeably more maneuverable, but in my opinion, one would be well advised to equip both boats with a thruster.

    In my earlier review I also mentioned that maneuvering the Paragon while surfing was also more challenging than driving prior generation G23s. My son pointed out that setting the thruster to the automatic / low setting resulted in the Paragon and 2021 G driving much like earlier G23s for surf operations. He was right. My kids both used this setting to acclimate to the handling of the Paragon while driving for surfing. I also want to point out that this is perhaps the ONLY time I would ever use the thruster in automatic mode, it might be fine for a new driver, but if you are an experienced single screw driver, that automatic thruster will make you look like a monkey when docking the boat. It drives exactly opposite of the expectation you have developed over the years. But thruster auto mode is extremely useful when maneuvering to retrieve your surfer or wakeboarder. Because of this I would like to see Nautique add an option to the Surf, Wake, and Back to Dock, etc. configuration settings to allow the thruster configuration to be stored as part of the active user configuration. Being able to define the thruster as automatic for Surf, but manual for Back to Dock would significantly improve maneuvering while retrieving riders as well as avoid the embarrassment and potential damage caused by forgetting to turn off the automatic mode when docking the boat.

    The passenger seats in the Paragon use thicker padding and are extremely comfortable. The front passenger seat on both boats utilizes gas/spring assisted hinges just like on the prior G23, but the storage area underneath both boats (Paragon and 2021 G23) is reduced because of the new flat floor added there. It is no longer the hull shaped cavernous space found in prior generation Gs. This flat floor covers the dual batteries that are relocated there in the Paragon. The additional weight of the batteries on the port side reduces prop torque induced longitudinal roll of the boat making the stock Paragon ride very level. Both boats came with the optional battery tender which is also mounted in this storage area just behind the bulkhead of the front passenger seat footwell, opposite of the stereo amplifiers. The battery tender in our older G23s is mounted on the starboard side behind the driver seat area. That space is no longer available in the new hulls because of the starboard side seat redesign. As a result, the Paragon and 2021 G23 front passenger under-seat storage volume is reduced. In that area we were only able to fit small 4’4” surfboards so instead we kept our dock bumpers and boat cover which fit nicely.

    The Paragon uses electronic buttons to manage main power while the 2021 G23 still uses the red rotary switch. In the 2021 G23 the rotary switch is relocated from the trap door in the driver console region into the bilge where the second battery was located in prior generation Gs. The 2021 G23 now only has one large battery in the bilge area instead of two, the second battery is probably under the hinge-up seat like in the Paragon, but I did not have time to check it out.

    The stern seating areas are very comfortable. Perhaps my favorite thing about the stern seat in the Paragon is the extended track that allows the seat to be pulled further back than in the G23, to be in-line with the port and starboard rear facing side seats. This creates a nice U-shaped lounge area where everyone can sit together to watch the action behind the boat.

    I was unprepared for how much my wife and daughter LOVED the rear stern lounger seats on the Paragon. Every time we were stopped to float or tie up at a dock, they were both parked in these seats. In fact, that set of seats closed the deal for my wife to now “prefer” the Paragon over the G23!
    In the Paragon the stern seats lift up to expose the storage lockers for boards and other equipment. We were able to lay flat two to three surfboards in each rear locker. The Paragon also came with the wake sub which takes up about 10 - 12” of the rear most storage area in the lockers. This is clearly a case where the new features are eroding storage capacity, there is no free lunch. Many have complained about the rear access to the storage lockers. But we love them. The riders stand on the platform, retrieve, and store their boards and vests without bringing them into the boat which makes for less clutter in the main seating area. The 2021 G23 uses the flip-up locker arrangement found in prior generation G23s. The openings are larger than on the 2020 G23, similar in size to the 2019 G boats. Boards can be placed on edge, but the seat well of the rear seats does limit each locker to two or three boards and other gear.

    The performance of the ZZ8 is impressive and efficient. In the 16 hours of use we purchased 120.6 Gallons of fuel for an average fuel burn of 7.5 Gallons/Hour including miles of back to dock going home or to lunch. When exclusively surfing we measured fuel burn at about 7.0 Gallons/Hour in the Paragon. This compares very favorably to the roughly 6.0 Gallons/Hour we have logged in our ZZ6 engines while surfing, especially when one considers the ZZ8 has 33% more horsepower than the ZZ6. At 11.3 surf speed the ZZ8 quietly ran at 2700 RPM. Back to Dock was about 3350 to 3400 depending upon wind. Top end was about 37 MPH. The Paragon is a large boat and feels more at home running in the 25-32 MPH range, however we did a few 5000 RPM 1-minute runs to ensure proper engine break in. Even with the extra weight in the 2021 G23 the ZZ6 engine performed extremely well, at no time did I feel we needed additional power in that boat and at sea level the ZZ6 would by my choice. Engine RPMs were identical to what we have recorded in our 2020 G23 also with 900 lbs. of weight and while we did not have time to measures fuel burn, I expect it to be identical to prior Gs.

    I also decided to do an oil change in the Paragon when the engine reached 20 hours. That ZZ8 engine is crammed into the engine compartment with much less room to work than the ZZ6 is in the G23. However, the larger size of the side lockers which are accessed with the electric engine hatch fully lifted allows one to do the entire oil change from the locker area where access to the oil filter is unrestricted. The spin-on fuel filter in the Paragon is another deal all together. It is located on the rear side of the front engine firewall behind the blower hose and assembly and is difficult to access. I may remove the zip tie holding the blower hose to the fan assembly and replace it with a large removable clamp so that I can remove the blower hose to gain unrestricted access to the spin on filter in the future. Both the spin-on fuel filter and the FCC filter are extremely accessible in the 2021 G23 with the smaller ZZ6, maintenance in this boat should be a breeze.

    I want to repeat on the 2021 G23 the stock wave was soft, ideal for skim riding, but not for surfing. However, with 900 lbs. of lead in the 2021 G23 the wave was EVERY bit as good as the stock wave on the Paragon. In fact, if we had time, I would move 200 lbs. from the port side rear seat area to the front passenger seat area (near the sub and amplifiers) to soften the G23 wave. The wave was a monster with 900 lbs. and could probably be fine with less weight. I am still in awe of the surf wave transformation that the extra weight had on the G23! The G23 drove nimbler than the Paragon even with its extra 900 lbs. I attribute this to the 17” pitch prop providing significantly greater prop walk force than the 13.5” pitch prop on the Paragon. The G also shares the same power steering and of course the same steering wheel/throttle layout making it a joy to drive, just like the Paragon.

    In the short time we had it we loved the 2021 G23. Clearly it is a lower featured boat than the Paragon, but it is a wonderful boat all the same. My wife and I went back and forth for days when deciding which boat, we would purchase. The G uses the standard tower, single LINC screen, comes without the rear lounge seats and rear access storage lockers of the Paragon. But it is a fantastic boat. The layout of the 2021 G and LINC screen are very consistent with our prior G23s and we felt more at home in this boat. I loved the vinyl fabric accents new this year in the G23 as well as the corner bolsters found in all of the corner seats, making sitting in the corners extremely comfortable. Our dilemma is that we fell in love with the Paragon first. Clearly there is no need here which will justify the additional price of the Paragon over the G23. For us this is about a sport we love, where we spend hundreds of hours each year training for fun and competition with our kids. It is a joy to have this time with our kids before they go off to college and because it is so much a part of our life, for us we might as well be spending that time in the Paragon!


    Paragon on the water:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Resized_20200711_140913.jpg Views:	7 Size:	34.5 KB ID:	617933

    G23 on the water:

    Last edited by greggmck; 07-22-2020, 01:48 PM. Reason: Fixed multiple fonts

    Comment

    • RDT-G23
      Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
      • Jun 2017
      • 589

      • TEXAS

      • 2020 G23 PARAGON I 2017 G23(sold)

      #47
      I could not have asked for a better, more thorough comparison, nor could NAUTIQUE. Wow! Thank you!

      Comment

      • greggmck
        Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
        • Oct 2014
        • 795

        • Bellevue WA

        • 2023 Paragon G23

        #48
        I updated the text clarifying that the manual states there is a second battery and added the audio discussion.

        Comment

        • tke104
          • Jul 2010
          • 70

          • Ice Coast


          #49
          Really nice write up. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

          Crazy that we still need to add lead to the G...

          Comment

          • Kmayotte
            Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
            • Apr 2010
            • 819

            • Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

            • 2016 G23, 1999 SN Python Past: 2004 SANTE, 1993 SN

            #50
            greggmck Haven't gotten all the way through the great write up yet, but first question:
            No middle cleat??
            As in the cleat that's right in front of my windshield on my 2016 G23?

            Comment

            • greggmck
              Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
              • Oct 2014
              • 795

              • Bellevue WA

              • 2023 Paragon G23

              #51
              Originally posted by Kmayotte View Post
              greggmck Haven't gotten all the way through the great write up yet, but first question:
              No middle cleat??
              As in the cleat that's right in front of my windshield on my 2016 G23?
              No that is the front cleat, it is still there. I think in 2018 Nautique added a middle cleat, right next to the driver. I use this to tie up at the gas dock. It is gone.

              Comment

              • Skipdawg316
                • Sep 2014
                • 20



                #52
                Super helpful write up, thank you!


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • Kenv
                  1,000 Post Club Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 1070

                  • Texas

                  • 2021 G23 Previous 2015 G21 2010 226 2005 226 2000 Super Air

                  #53
                  Great write up. But am I the only one with the question.....didn't you say you ordered the 2021 G23....but are now keeping the Paragon?? This is the line that threw me back to thinking you were keeping the 2021.......Clearly there is no need here which will justify the additional price of the Paragon over the G23. But the end hints to you keeping the Paragon?

                  Comment

                  • greggmck
                    Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
                    • Oct 2014
                    • 795

                    • Bellevue WA

                    • 2023 Paragon G23

                    #54
                    What I meant is that I'm not going to try to identify a need to justify purchasing the Paragon. We simply want the boat because we enjoy it so much. Yes, to be clear we will be purchasing the Paragon, not the G23.

                    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

                    Comment

                    • RDT-G23
                      Senior Member of PLANETNAUTIQUE
                      • Jun 2017
                      • 589

                      • TEXAS

                      • 2020 G23 PARAGON I 2017 G23(sold)

                      #55
                      Originally posted by greggmck View Post
                      What I meant is that I'm not going to try to identify a need to justify purchasing the Paragon. We simply want the boat because we enjoy it so much. Yes, to be clear we will be purchasing the Paragon, not the G23.

                      Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
                      Roll Tide.

                      Comment

                      • MG94
                        • Oct 2019
                        • 147

                        • Il

                        • G23

                        #56
                        Originally posted by greggmck View Post
                        What I meant is that I'm not going to try to identify a need to justify purchasing the Paragon. We simply want the boat because we enjoy it so much. Yes, to be clear we will be purchasing the Paragon, not the G23.

                        Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
                        I’m glad I didn’t have to make that choice. Very happy with the Paragon. I bought it for the wake but have really enjoyed the extras.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                        Comment

                        • Kenv
                          1,000 Post Club Member
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 1070

                          • Texas

                          • 2021 G23 Previous 2015 G21 2010 226 2005 226 2000 Super Air

                          #57
                          Originally posted by greggmck View Post
                          What I meant is that I'm not going to try to identify a need to justify purchasing the Paragon. We simply want the boat because we enjoy it so much. Yes, to be clear we will be purchasing the Paragon, not the G23.

                          Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
                          Sweet....

                          Comment

                          • brudererscr
                            • Feb 2014
                            • 33

                            • Indianapolis

                            • 2022 G23

                            #58
                            That is one of the Best write ups I have come across. Thank you for being so thorough. I am on my second G23. Previously had a 2014 and now have a 2019. Throughout the summer my dealer brings in Pros for tips and also check out new boats, boards, etc. This year we got to go with Tommy Czeschin in a new 2021 G23. I am a 47 year old 245lb ex college linebacker. I ride a Soulcraft Voodoo that I love for my weight. I wish I had the frame of Tommy, but just isn't happening. I was amazed at how much push I was able to get at the back of the wave. I cannot do this in my 2019 G23. However, I spend more time driving and teaching than I do surfing. Most of my riders are all smaller and never looked at putting weight in the boat. You mention that you had 900lbs of weight in you 2020 G23. Would that help the push in my 2019 G23? I went out yesterday in my G and just could not replicate the push in the 2021 G. It was much longer and was able to get into 360's and recover! I was really impressed with the 2021 G wave. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.

                            Comment

                            • MG94
                              • Oct 2019
                              • 147

                              • Il

                              • G23

                              #59
                              Originally posted by brudererscr View Post
                              That is one of the Best write ups I have come across. Thank you for being so thorough. I am on my second G23. Previously had a 2014 and now have a 2019. Throughout the summer my dealer brings in Pros for tips and also check out new boats, boards, etc. This year we got to go with Tommy Czeschin in a new 2021 G23. I am a 47 year old 245lb ex college linebacker. I ride a Soulcraft Voodoo that I love for my weight. I wish I had the frame of Tommy, but just isn't happening. I was amazed at how much push I was able to get at the back of the wave. I cannot do this in my 2019 G23. However, I spend more time driving and teaching than I do surfing. Most of my riders are all smaller and never looked at putting weight in the boat. You mention that you had 900lbs of weight in you 2020 G23. Would that help the push in my 2019 G23? I went out yesterday in my G and just could not replicate the push in the 2021 G. It was much longer and was able to get into 360's and recover! I was really impressed with the 2021 G wave. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.
                              Borrow some bags and play around with it. Before I upgraded we weighted down the g23. It was awesome but the 450 was a little slow getting up to plane. We had a sack in each tear locker and one in the bow.




                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                              Comment

                              • Gtsum2
                                • Jul 2019
                                • 224

                                • Virginia

                                • 2020 G23

                                #60
                                Originally posted by brudererscr View Post
                                That is one of the Best write ups I have come across. Thank you for being so thorough. I am on my second G23. Previously had a 2014 and now have a 2019. Throughout the summer my dealer brings in Pros for tips and also check out new boats, boards, etc. This year we got to go with Tommy Czeschin in a new 2021 G23. I am a 47 year old 245lb ex college linebacker. I ride a Soulcraft Voodoo that I love for my weight. I wish I had the frame of Tommy, but just isn't happening. I was amazed at how much push I was able to get at the back of the wave. I cannot do this in my 2019 G23. However, I spend more time driving and teaching than I do surfing. Most of my riders are all smaller and never looked at putting weight in the boat. You mention that you had 900lbs of weight in you 2020 G23. Would that help the push in my 2019 G23? I went out yesterday in my G and just could not replicate the push in the 2021 G. It was much longer and was able to get into 360's and recover! I was really impressed with the 2021 G wave. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.
                                I am similar build and recently ordered a Voodoo for some help with push. I am a new surfer (2020 G23) so my skills are limited for sure, but I see others on the lake surfing a good bit behind the boat (not as big as me for sure) and I just dont seem to have a lot of push except for right on top of the boat...I really have to pump and work to stay in the wave anytime I get farther back...I ordered 500lbs of lead to play with to see if it helps, so I will see

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X