New Model coming in October?

[mintmonkey]

Really hoping that if it's an improved/flagship surf boat that they don't price it as high as the rumors are indicating. The fact is that a majority of people who are buying these boats now surf much more than they wakeboard and want the boat with the best surf wave. The G23 is still has the best wakeboard wake out there but it feels like Nautique is starting to loose ground to some of the other manufacturers on the surf side. I'd be fine if there was a small premium over the cost of a G25 but I really hope Nautique doesn't price out their core customers on their "flagship" surf boat.

Could the market support a $300K boat? I think absolutely it could. There are plenty of people out there who could easily pay that and if you look at what people are paying for some of the center console boats nowadays then that price doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Are the people who will pay that your die hard surfers and water sports enthusiasts? Some yes, but most probably not. I don't think the super luxury boat and the surf focused boat should be the same boat. If they are, Nautique should at least give you the ability to option it in a way that the finishes and price are similar to the G 23/25.

If its an electric boat, I can understand a $280K price tag. Guess we'll know soon!

[Luebowski]

Have you been in an X24 or any of the other new 24 foot boats? An X24 has considerably less usable room than a G23.

No, I have not been in any of the 24 foot boats. Just from the research I have done, the market seems to really like them, with the A24, X24, and now M240 and F24 coming out for 2020.

[nautiquegeek]

Most people are not buying a 24 ft. boat for an increase in seating capacity. It's because the 24 ft hull can support increased ballast and storage.

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Unfortunately much of the market is always pushing more ballast is better which we all know isn't always the case. People need to be educated on what formulations equate to a good wave such as hull design, surf systems, ballast, speed, and many other factors; even lake depths and flow directions of your water way or lake are huge factors.

Unless glass lay up is made to be more dense and heavier, buoyancy of a larger boat usually requires more ballast to sink it for a comparable wave of a smaller boat with less ballast. The addition of ballast to buoyancy equation would be linear in most aspects. There are always variables in this, but generally speaking this would be true pertaining to the rather small sizes of boats of which we speak of in this conversation (under 26 feet). There is a reason many like the surf wave of a G21 as much or more than a G25 with the same ballast configuration. Sure, you can fit more ballast in a 25 foot boat than you can a 21 foot boat, but additional ballast is required to push the boat over it's buoyancy to weight ratio.

I am sorry to stray off topic so much but from what market analysis suggest, you would be incorrect in your statement I quoted above. People are purchasing a 24 or 25 foot boat because it has more room for family and friends first and foremost as well as a safer to their eyes taller numerically freeboard. It appears bigger to their senses in every way (even if that means more ballast in their mind as an added bonus). Storage is definitely a factor as well, but the "support of increased ballast" is not one of the top reasons someone would be buying a larger wake sports boat. Lucky for the G, it is the leader in usable storage even compared to the new 24 foot boats on the market. Keep in mind I am stating usable storage. Manufactures are great at giving large cubic inch storage numbers but these do not reflect the actual ability to allow practical and applicable spaces for wake gear and other items.

I know you are on this forum a lot, an from what I read an accomplished wake surfer; it is easy to get jaded in to thinking everyone buying a new surf boat is looking for the magical 10k total weight number or more and five foot high waves. Contrary to what many would think, this forum only represents a small segment of the market that is actually buying 150k wake boats and going out every weekend or even every day. The majority of G buyers, Supra SA/SE, MC X22/24s, Cent RIs, etc will NEVER add more ballast than what the factory offered or be able to do a 180 shove it or even care to. They spend a house's worth on a boat that they can touch a "surf" button on the dash, surf, GoPro their friends crashing and drink a soda or whatever beverage gets them going.

I don't want to keep coming off sounding like a Nautique fanboy, as there are many great boats out there. Today all wake sports company's boats offer something special and most surf well with a a ton of room for occupants and storage for gear.

Have a great weekend.

[nautiquegeek]

No, I have not been in any of the 24 foot boats. Just from the research I have done, the market seems to really like them, with the A24, X24, and now M240 and F24 coming out for 2020.

I think many like the sound of 24 more than 23 Bigger is always better in many folks minds. X23 was losing ground on the competition. Build an X22 to beat out the G21 and an X24 to beat out the G23 numerically. Not necessarily in real world size, but in advertising. It's smart, really smart. Every manufacture is always trying to one up each other and that's what keeps this market fresh and growing.

[greggmck]

Unfortunately much of the market is always pushing more ballast is better which we all know isn't always the case. People need to be educated on what formulations equate to a good wave such as hull design, surf systems, ballast, speed, and many other factors; even lake depths and flow directions of your water way or lake are huge factors.

Unless glass lay up is made to be more dense and heavier, buoyancy of a larger boat usually requires more ballast to sink it for a comparable wave of a smaller boat with less ballast. The addition of ballast to buoyancy equation would be linear in most aspects. There are always variables in this, but generally speaking this would be true pertaining to the rather small sizes of boats of which we speak of in this conversation (under 26 feet). There is a reason many like the surf wave of a G21 as much or more than a G25 with the same ballast configuration. Sure, you can fit more ballast in a 25 foot boat than you can a 21 foot boat, but additional ballast is required to push the boat over it's buoyancy to weight ratio.

I am sorry to stray off topic so much but from what market analysis suggest, you would be incorrect in your statement I quoted above. People are purchasing a 24 or 25 foot boat because it has more room for family and friends first and foremost as well as a safer to their eyes taller numerically freeboard. It appears bigger to their senses in every way (even if that means more ballast in their mind as an added bonus). Storage is definitely a factor as well, but the "support of increased ballast" is not one of the top reasons someone would be buying a larger wake sports boat. Lucky for the G, it is the leader in usable storage even compared to the new 24 foot boats on the market. Keep in mind I am stating usable storage. Manufactures are great at giving large cubic inch storage numbers but these do not reflect the actual ability to allow practical and applicable spaces for wake gear and other items.

I know you are on this forum a lot, an from what I read an accomplished wake surfer; it is easy to get jaded in to thinking everyone buying a new surf boat is looking for the magical 10k total weight number or more and five foot high waves. Contrary to what many would think, this forum only represents a small segment of the market that is actually buying 150k wake boats and going out every weekend or even every day. The majority of G buyers, Supra SA/SE, MC X22/24s, Cent RIs, etc will NEVER add more ballast than what the factory offered or be able to do a 180 shove it or even care to. They spend a house's worth on a boat that they can touch a "surf" button on the dash, surf, GoPro their friends crashing and drink a soda or whatever beverage gets them going.

I don't want to keep coming off sounding like a Nautique fanboy, as there are many great boats out there. Today all wake sports company's boats offer something special and most surf well with a a ton of room for occupants and storage for gear.

Have a great weekend.

We disagree on a few points. Your comment about most "beginners" prefer a G21 over a G25 wave only illustrates my point. It's not about how larger is by definition better, but about the total weight of the boat (ballast, people, hull, etc) vs. hull surface area. The smaller G will make a steeper but shorter wave producing more push than the G25 which helps keep a beginner on the wave so they enjoy themselves more. The smaller G produces a "better" wave because it has more weight density biased to the stern. The engine is in the rear and with the current ballast the stern will penetrate the water flow at a greater angle of attack to produce a taller wave. The larger boat CAN produce a longer and more powerful wave but today's G25 lacks sufficient ballast to do so. The G23 hits the sweet spot in the G line up for cabin space but is lacking in ballast to produce an optimal wave. I know this because I have experimented extensively with boat weighting, have hosted six world champions, dozens of top pros and Nautique factory team riders on my boat to provide feedback. I have had Centurion factory riders on my boat and they have commented, "I had no idea a G could produce such a powerful wave, its as good as the Ri257." And this is saying something because if you have ever ridden a properly weighted Centurion Ri257 you know how much better a wave can be.

Also it's not about more is more, I don't see surf boats continuing to increase in size. There are already 25 ft boats but most are not a runaway success. I had use of a G25 for two months. It's a great boat but in general larger than the majority of people need and the stock wave is VERY weak. I also give Nautique demos for prospective customers for our local dealer. I know of only a few G25s on our large lake and two families that purchased the G25 simply because they could not wait to get a G23. I also ride and train behind the Centurion Ri257 and Ri25. Both boats have great waves but not because they are 25 ft but because they were equipped with sufficient ballast for their hull size. Most of the owners of these 25 ft boats would rather have a SMALLER boat if it would produce the same wave and I believe 24 ft boats will accomplish this.

For the past few years I have traveled extensively to compete at surfing. I am a Masters Wake Surf World Champion. My son is a World Champion. My daughter is ranked in the top five amateurs in the world. Collectively we have met and surfed with dozens of other like minded surfers from beginner to pro. All of the people we meet weight their boats. ALL OF THEM. Weight is needed to balance prop torque and once a surfer progresses from beginner to intermediate they always seek a stronger wave. Weight can help do this. Even when we meet Joe/Jane six pack on our lake to give them beginner lessons the first thing they ask is how to weight their boat properly. Finally, Jane and Joe beginner do not DRIVE the surf boat market. The pros and experienced surfers provide feedback to the factory to help drive the manufactures to produce the best surf boat. Beginners buy what the pros use, not the other way around. Why do you think Nautique and other boat manufactures sponsor factory riders? If Nautique designed any boat to satisfy the average beginner they have clearly missed their mark.

In travelling extensively, I have also had the chance to surf and drive most of the top surf boats. In my opinion the 24 ft size is becoming the standard for seating room, hull total mass, and therefore weight to produce an optimal wave. Perhaps this can be done with a 23 ft boat, but the freeboard would have to increase so its probably more marketable to have a 24 ft vs a 23 ft with a higher freeboard. 24 ft boats don't seat meaningfully more people than a 23 ft boat so I doubt people are buying a 24 ft boat vs. a 23 ft boat for the extra seating. But the extra foot does provide additional room for about 4,000+ lbs of sub-floor ballast, a sub-floor cooler while still retaining rear locker storage. And it is my opinion, when any beginner rides behind a properly weighted 23 or 24 ft surf boat they will NOT think the 21 ft wave is good at all. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know.

Since much of the industry is now evolving the premier surf boat to 24 ft, X24, MX24, M240, SE, Vi24 which in many cases will produce a significantly better, not necessarily a bigger wave than the stock G23, Nautique has to do something to close this gap or in time Joe and Jane six pack looking for a premier surf boat will figure this out and buy another brand.

[nautiquegeek]

We disagree on a few points. Your comment about most "beginners" prefer a G21 over a G25 wave only illustrates my point. It not about larger is by definition better, but about the total weight of the boat (ballast, people, hull, etc) vs. hull surface area. The smaller G will make a steeper but shorter wave producing more push than the G25 which helps keep a beginner on the wave so they enjoy themselves more. The smaller G produces a "better" wave because it has more weight density biased to the stern. The engine is in the rear and with the current ballast the stern will penetrate the water flow at a greater angle of attack to produce a taller wave. The larger boat CAN produce a longer and more powerful wave but today's G25 lacks sufficient ballast to do so. The G23 hits the sweet spot in the G line up for cabin space but is lacking in ballast to produce an optimal wave. I know this because I have experimented extensively with boat weighting, have hosted six world champions, dozens of top pros and Nautique factory team riders on my boat to provide feedback. I have had Centurion factory riders on my boat and they have commented, "I had no idea a G could produce such a powerful wave, its as good as the Ri257." And this is saying something because if you have ever ridden a properly weighted Centurion Ri257 you know how much better a wave can be.

Also it's not about more is more, I don't see surf boats continuing to increase in size. There are already 25 ft boats but most are not a runaway success. I had use of a G25 for two months. It's a great boat but in general larger than the majority of people need and the stock wave is VERY weak. I also give Nautique demos for prospective customers for our local dealer. I know of only a few G25s on our large lake and two families that purchased the G25 simply because they could not wait to get a G23. I also ride and train behind the Centurion Ri257 and Ri25. Both boats have great waves but not because they are 25 ft but because they were equipped with sufficient ballast for their hull size. Most of the owners of these 25 ft boats would rather have a SMALLER boat if it would produce the same wave and I believe 24 ft boats will accomplish this.

For the past few years I have traveled extensively to compete at surfing. I am a Masters Wake Surf World Champion. My son is a World Champion. My daughter is ranked in the top five amateurs in the world. Collectively we have met and surfed with dozens of other like minded surfers from beginner to pro. All of the people we meet weight their boats. ALL OF THEM. Weight is needed to balance prop torque and once a surfer progresses from beginner to intermediate they always seek a stronger wave. Weight can help do this. Even when we meet Joe/Jane six pack on our lake to give them beginner lessons the first thing they ask is how to weight their boat properly. Finally, Jane and Joe beginner do not DRIVE the surf boat market. The pros and experienced surfers provide feedback to the factory to help drive the manufactures to produce the best surf boat. Beginners buy what the pros use, not the other way around. Why do you think Nautique and other boat manufactures sponsor factory riders? If Nautique designed any boat to satisfy the average beginner they have clearly missed their mark.

In travelling extensively, I have also had the chance to surf and drive most of the top surf boats. In my opinion the 24 ft size is becoming the standard for seating room, hull total mass, and therefore weight to produce an optimal wave. Perhaps this can be done with a 23 ft boat, but the freeboard would have to increase so its probably more marketable to have a 24 ft vs a 23 ft with a higher freeboard. 24 ft boats don't seat meaningfully more people than a 23 ft boat so I doubt people are buying a 24 ft boat vs. a 23 ft boat for the extra seating. But the extra foot does provide additional room for about 4,000+ lbs of sub-floor ballast, a sub-floor cooler while still retaining rear locker storage. And it is my opinion, when any beginner rides behind a properly weighted 23 or 24 ft surf boat they will NOT think the 21 ft wave is good at all. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know.

Since much of the industry is now evolving the premier surf boat to 24 ft, X24, MX24, M240, SE, Vi24 which in many cases will produce a significantly better, not necessarily a bigger wave than the stock G23, Nautique has to do something to close this gap or in time Joe and Jane six pack looking for a premier surf boat will figure this out and buy another brand.

First off, you are misquoting me. I never used the word "beginners" or have lead anyone to believe Nautique is building a boat for beginners. I clearly stated "many" feel a factory set up for factory set up, a G21 surfs better than a 23 then leading to the reasoning why later in my post. However, waves and how a boat surfs is extremely subjective.

You have missed my point extensively and that's fine. I wasn't arguing with you on how weighting a boat properly throughout the lockers, sub floor and cabin can be beneficial in many ways. I stated that most buyers are not buying a new 24 foot boat so it can house more ballast properly and how marketing is playing a huge part in pushing the 24 foot number.

Like I mentioned in my previous post it sounds like you have quite the palmares in the wake surf world; you should be proud of yourself and your family. Thanks for bringing it to my attention and to the forums once again.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and good luck in those contest. I will keep an eye out for you when I am at one.

[greggmck]

First off, you are misquoting me. I never used the word "beginners" or have lead anyone to believe Nautique is building a boat for beginners. I clearly stated "many" feel a factory set up for factory set up, a G21 surfs better than a 23 then leading to the reasoning why later in my post. However, waves and how a boat surfs is extremely subjective.

You have missed my point extensively and that's fine. I wasn't arguing with you on how weighting a boat properly throughout the lockers, sub floor and cabin can be beneficial in many ways. I stated that most buyers are not buying a new 24 foot boat so it can house more ballast properly and how marketing is playing a huge part in pushing the 24 foot number.

Like I mentioned in my previous post it sounds like you have quite the palmares in the wake surf world; you should be proud of yourself and your family. Thanks for bringing it to my attention and to the forums once again.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and good luck in those contest. I will keep an eye out for you when I am at one.

I was not trying to misquote you. I purposely added the word "beginner" because I believe no accomplished surfer would prefer a G21 wave over a properly weighted G23. The G21 is not used in any surf competition. Nor are any other 21 ft boats, simply because they produce a wave that is too steep for competition. We can disagree but thanks for keeping it civil. A good weekend to you too.

[mooneywa]

Here’s the solution to the marketing of size dilemma: Nautique should go the way of BMW and use complete nonsense numbers and the occasional letter for the model of their boats so no one knows what it actually is. Then, if it’s a great boat, people will just buy it because it’s a great boat and not because of its size! Call me the King Solomon of boat marketing.

[Skidave]

I remember when I purchased my Nautique new and it started with a 3. And it wasn't hundred thousand.

I'd like to see a performance boat for a reasonable price. I get it, there is no market for this. However, it could bring many new buyers around. We all see people using other non-ski / non-wakeboarding type of boats for boarding and surfing. That is a huge market to tap into. If the people enjoy what they are doing, they most likely upgrade to a better boat. Oh well, there goes my marketing strategy!

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

[GMLIII]

Heyday boats all day long for 50 grand . Budget wake/surf boat

[greggmck]

Heyday boats all day long for 50 grand . Budget wake/surf boat

Agree. And in my opinion the Supreme ZS series boats put out the best wave for the money. There are value boats out there but unfortunately we are no longer in an era where $30K buys a new surf boat...

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[jjackkrash]

I don't know anything about this particular diesel engine, but marine diesels have been historically viewed as having 3 to 5 (or more) times the service life of a marine gas engine and have always had a huge upcharge over gas engines. So the upcharge isn't that shocking to me.

[core-rider]

Instagram is all a flutter because of this post!


https://www.instagram.com/p/B3QKxFuA...=1kqyz2g4uijsu


Sent from my iPhone using PLT Nautique

[ScooterMcgavin]

That’s insane!

[NautiqueJeff]

Here's the image. This could get interesting quickly.