WHAT IF G23 with a duramax diesel?

[hotrod508]

All I got to say is right on!

So someone do the math here :-) .... 63 gal tank..... Let say 2 times more efficient (altho it will likely be 3 times with all the ballast we run...) how often you guys need to fill up? K... Cut that in half. Just sayin! Most guys havta pull out a couple times a season for warranty work/maintenence type stuff (am i right?) and you can legally run off road diesel! Cha ching!

If you look at the tail pipe on a new urea equipped truck like mine, the inside of the tail pipe is not even black.

And how much is the 550hp motor again? Yes the diesel option would be more inevitably!

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[Nordicron]

I think you guys are over estimating how efficient a diesel will be. Don't get me wrong I love diesels and would love to have a excursion instead of my suburban but it just isn't worth it in my opinion.

When I tow my San 210 with my 5.3 gasser is get 10-11mpg when my buddy tows his x-15 with his duramax he is only getting 13-14mpg. This is to the same riding spot and with virtually the same load. So with just this simple math I'd say your diesel is only 30% more efficient at best.

[nyryan2001]

^^^ that's a 6k load?

double the load to 12k lbs and let's see what the difference is. The diesels become more efficient comparatively as you get heavier.

[Zach@n3]

+1 Ryan. Under an extremely loaded application a diesel will win hands down. It's basic physics of the way a diesel engine works. There is more power stored in a less volatile fuel. That's why diesel engines are so much more efficient. They are able to extract that power from the ability to burn that fuel. Same thing with 87 vs 93 octane just not nearly to the extent of gas vs diesel. But then comes the financial part again. If it saves you money or brakes even it makes sense to get a more powerful longer lasting engine. Just like all of you fellas with the Ecoboost trucks. Yea they tow great but when you throw a G boat behind them they suck fuel down no other. Toss a similarly sized diesel(or even larger)with the same load and I almost bet you would double your fuel economy over an Ecoboost engine. No data just educated guesses. They prefer diesel engines in larger boat applications for a reason.......... I just think a Diesel would be a perfect fit for what most of you guys are doing with these sacked out boats. It makes sense. Low end torque and gobs of power out of the hole with the new variable vane turbo setups. Clean exhaust and possibly quieter operation due to the lower operating rpm vs a gasser.

[hotrod508]

Towing is never really a fair comparison for any type of scenario. You have gear ratios, vehicle height, tire size, transmission, Drag from whatever trailer and is completely dependent on speed. Unless you're using the exact same trailer with the exact same truck.

In my business I'm used to running Chevy Express Vans. All the vans in my industry everybody comments on how the fuel economy is terrible. 10 to 13 mpg is the norm for a heavy loaded van. (10000lbs) a loaded Duramax diesel van gets 18 city and 20 to 23 Highway. Those last two numbers are completely dependent on what speed you travel. I can absolutely run my van to death and it will only go down to 16.

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[nyryan2001]

Zach- I'm with you.. except on the Ecoboost. I think Ford is on to something here... We just need proof the technology is consistely reliable out to 300-400k miles. We'll see on that.

I posted up a 3.5V6 Eco vs a 6.2V8 Ford shootout towing a 5k boat. They both performed nearly identical in every way...the Eco sucks the exact same mpg under load as the 6.2 V8 did, and pulled just as strong!.... however the Eco got the favorable 18mpg highway while unloaded vs 13-14mpg on the 6.2. T

he Eco has major advantages like a diesel hitting max tq at 2000 rpms unlike regular and supercharged V8s hitting max tq at 3500rpms.

as long as we are into 2500 rpms + on our large engines, we will be guzzling fuel, we need to stay under 2200.... which is why the Eco technology and Diesels would be so good. Max tq at 2000rpms, vs having to rev up to 3500-3700rpms every time we hammer down to pull someone up.

We need much higher tq at lower rpms... 20 x 20 props. replicate and bring down from how tugboats are setup vs strengthening up a 1990s 45mph slollam boat design for wake.

[Zach@n3]

I agree Ryan, I wasn't comparing gas to gas but gas to diesel haha . Basically what we are saying here is the torque curve of an Eco boost or a diesel engine better matches the needs of a wake/wake surf boat than a high revving higher horse power V8. Regardless a diesel will be more efficient.

[swc5150]

Does anyone know why diesels are such a $$ premium in a marine application? It's not as though it's new technology for boats. We just bought a new Jetta TDI, and I think it was around a $3k markup for the diesel. Considering we're averaging 51mpg out of it, it will easily provide a positive ROI during our time of ownership. Just as a comparison, my mother bought the same car with 2.5 gas, and she's averaging 28mpg. If those diesel numbers could somehow translate into a ski boat, I would jump all over it.

[Zach@n3]

I am not sure why such the premium. Maybe all of the associated water related stuff you don't need in a car. The need to cool the catalytic converters, turbo housings, dpf filter during regen, etc etc. If it ended up being common practice I'm sure the premium would come down quite a bit. I can't see the actual engine cost being much more if any over a LSA 550. The new Ram 1500 upgrade to diesel is only 2850 on the retail side. You only need to fill up the DEF tank every 10k miles which is what they claim for oil change interval too.

[pe4me]

Fun topic, sorry to derail again...
I routinely see ford, Isuzu, Toyota etc. 2 & 4 wheel drive, 4 door mid-size trucks all day long here. Isuzu takes there 2.2 (same 2.2 in my NPR?) and stuffs it in there with no issues. Ford has an escape size truck with some diesel in it as we'll, I assume both are naturally aspirated and get awesome mpg. I think it's nuts. Gas here in the kingdom is 60 cents a gallon and we have more fuel efficient vehicles than in the states. Even more amusing is I have never seen a diesel pump at any of the stations...which are ALL full service.
Fat cats make no money on 40 mpg work trucks. That's the bottom line.
Duramax in a G being pulled by a 4 liter diesel 1/2 ton would save a lot. I think 30% is fairly conservative guestimate, either way signicant especially over time.

[BrennanK]

I think the price premium comes just from a parts standpoint. Look at the Duramax for example. You get the CP3 pump and 8 injectors are you are already looking at $4-5,000. Then you need to add the turbo that is another $2,000. Not to mention they are just built stronger. They have thicker blocks and more heavy duty parts. Now you have to add in all the emissions stuff; that is another few grand. All those items quickly add up to the markup price.

I don't think you are going to see gains that are worth a $10,000 grand mark up. However, to the people who can afford these boats, maybe it is worth it. Plus you would have to keep the boat awhile for it to pay off. Much like the VW TDI's. There are many studies on tdiclub.com that show if you don't drive a zillion miles a year or don't keep your car for more then 8 years they are not worth it. Many people are just misguided by the numbers they see. I for one don't care about the economic benefit, I just like the power curve of the diesel much better.

[swc5150]

Payback is an issue for sure. My wife puts 130 commuting miles per day on our TDI, so the math works out for us anyway. It would be really hard with a 60 hour a year boat.

[hotrod508]

Banks crate engine 575hp that puts the torque somewhere around 1000pf
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/c..._crate_engine/

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[hotrod508]

Correction 900fp torque

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[perry386]

Diesel is a good idea in my opinion. Chances are, if you are spending 130K for a boat, you wont mid the extra 10K. The things you would have to watch out for however is noise for one thing, making sure you had the right prop, and you would almost have to have a 2 or even 3 speed transmission with it. Another thing to consider is that with the mind boggling amount of torque that diesels have you would have to have probably like a 3inch drive-shaft or it would shear off like the '13 550s.