Big News from Yeargin?

[Chattwake]

I agree that CC appears to have made the absolute best ski boat and the money you pay when buying a 200 buys you the best skiing boat. For you skiers out there, it's a good thing 24 foot boats don't make good ski boats...

[2gofaster]

LOL. That's a joke, right? At the Houston Boat Show, the malibu dealer sold a big fat ZERO Axis's. At the same time, 75 feet away, we sold 9 nautiques and 13 mastercrafts. Heck, the big seller was the $120K X55, of which we sold 5. I heard at least 10 times from customers who came in that the Axis looked and felt cheap.

Axis was a terrible strategic desicion by Malibu. They stole their own market share with a cheaper, inferior product. Had Axis not been sold side by side with Malibu at their dealerships, maybe things would be different. There's a reason that Malibu is in the financial shape that it's in, though, and it's not entirely because of the economy but poor decisions.

I predict a new hull. But it won't be a 24+ yet. Which is a mistake. CC needs a 24.5+ boat. When we had the MC and CC's side by side in the same booth, it became apparent that a big boat was lacking in the CC line as customers specifically asked over and over why CC didn't have one. Had they had one, the sales in our booth would have tipped to the side of CC instead of MC. Look at how many people spent big $ on that beast of a MC.

[RLS]

Find out how many were sold at the Northern California show. Your part of the world maybe able to buy boats at that price but not here not now. This market has been huge for CC but there number ONE dealer here no longer orders CC and the number one reason is price. They do not see the value in the boats. About a year ago they started selling Malibu and CC. When this years increases came in CC was out.

[wakemewhenitsover]

Interesting guesses so far.

Very interesting.

My guess is a 22 foot wakeboard boat that converts to a flying car. Power is a modified steam engine that runs on fuel made from ground up peanut shells and "corn likker".

MSRP will be $24,999.00.

[SNMike]

The price increase from my '10 to my '11 promo 200 was under 4%. While we all want the best for less, they are not having any trouble selling boats. So, clearly, the boats have value to some people. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think their goal is to sell mass quantities of boats.

I don't think the announcement has anything to do with price.

Dave is correct. CC has NEVER, and will NEVER have a mission statement/goal to sell the most quantity. There are a lot of variables of course, but the fact is there will always be a segment of consumers that have enough income to buy what they want......the best in their eyes. That said, CC, like every other business that I'm aware of, has had to scale back to survive in this economic down turn. Which by the way, IMHO, will NOT get any better this year, probably worse.

I'm a state certified general contractor, and a sales rep for Manning Building Supplies. There's only two types of construction going on in FLA. Remodels, and people who have money. Banks won't loan money, unless you have money..........it's nut's. My wife is a dept. head for a big bank, and she's confirmed what my customer's tell me.

Back to the topic, CC will survive because of the position they kept themselves in. NOT over extended. My company, MBS, has NEVER owed anyone. They pay in full every 30 days. All property, trucks, inventory, etc, is paid for. Has been since 1948. That's why when the the bubble burst in the last part of 07, we had a financial upper hand over the competition. We have business savoy. Many of our competitors, some large chains, are gone, or going.

I'm sure CC would like more market share. Can they build a entry level "price point" boat? I haven't a clue. Will they.....I "think" I have a clue. One more thing, the cost of building materials flat lined about a year and a half ago. Some items went up. The average square foot price to build a new home today, is mostly unchanged since this tsunami began.

Regards to ALL!!

Mike

[Chattwake]

Lol at the Axis hate! Not one word about the wake or performance. To some wakeboarding has become more about whose got the biggest most expensive rig as opposed to which boat is the best to ride behind. What has happened to this industry? Cobalt and sea ray must be p.o.'d over losing so many sales. Might as well slap an outdrive on that x55 because it's nothing but a $120k runabout.

[ClemsonDave]

But again.... if that's what people want (big, flashy, etc), that's what the manufacturer's will deliver. Even if you decide not to purchase that $120k wakeboard boat, you will still benefit because it will most likely keep the resale of the '08 pretty high. The 200 has done that for the 196s.

I don't buy boats/cars just because it is the most expensive. I do happen to enjoy how well my 200 is made and quality of materials. I know... just a sales pitch from a promo guy. Even if I wasn't on the team, I'd still be buying a 200 every other year or so. And my income certainly is not what it was a few years ago. If I couldn't afford a brand new one, I'd buy one that is a year old or so.

[2gofaster]

Chatt, not hate at all. REality. It's been proven time and again that the buying public doesn't want cheap. They talk about it, but when the rubber meets the road, they don't buy it. Look at the low cost boats that the big 3 put out back in the late 90s, early 2000s. No one bought them and they went away. Dockside put together a nice package on Standard Edition 210s with Wetsounds tower speakers, amps, subs, etc for a REALLY good price. And when I say really good, I mean really good. And we couldn't get people into the boat to look at it or consider it. Instead they got in the Team 210 and 230 which were $20k more.

[Chattwake]

Look all I'm saying is that if you compare the options, performance and fit and finish of an a22, it's equivalent to the top tier boats 4-5 years ago, but at a price that's less or equivalent to what those boats cost back then. Flagship wakeboard boats like the 230 and x25 are definitely nicer and have more bling than an a22, but there's a huge price difference, and it seems like the justification for that extra coin is diminishing. For instance, the linc system is really cool, but is it worth the 3k price jump associated therewith? Even 3k is a lot of money!

The major reason why some folks, like me, bought xstars and 230s was because those boats produced better wakes than what you could get out of a budget boat brand. Well, the thing is, companies like axis now make boats that make awesome wakes too. Therefore, one of the core reasons why some people were willing to spend a little more for a flagship mc or cc has gone away. I wish cc would have justified the cost increases by offering me more innovations directed at producing a better wake. I mean, how much more would it cost for the 230 and 210 to come plumbed for add on sacs like the axis boats do? What about refining the hydrogate so it does more to impact the wake? Can't we get some tower choices?

I love nautiques boats! They are beautiful. They hold up great! But I just wish they wouldn't just keep going up in price so much.

As to the quality of the a22, I have no complaints. It's not as nice as my old 230, but it was $30k+ less money so I kindof expected that. I'm going to be host with you guys this season and if my a22 turns out to be a lemon, you'll hear about it! Haha.

[2gofaster]

The fit and finish and choice of materials of the Axis boats that I have seen are NOT comparable to a nautique, MC or even a Malibu. Maybe you got good one. Push on the side of yours. I did the other day. I could deflect the gunnel of a new A22 over 1 inch.

[Chattwake]

Again, I'm not saying that the fit and finish of an axis is going to be on par with a current nautique or mc, but it's still nice. I'll push away on side of the boat and see if I notice anything.

I'm probably a good litmus test for how a 230 will compare to an a22. If the axis falls apart, you'll know. If I get burned on resale, you'll know. If I'm unhappy in a year, you'll know and I'll have a lot of crow to eat. However, right now, I'm happy.

I guess the reason I plan to hang around here is because I'll always appreciate the quality of nautique and want to keep up with the happenings at pn. I wish the best for nautique and hope they have continued success. I just think it's healthy to have open discussions about prices, expectations, competition, etc.

[j2nh]

Chatt, not hate at all. REality. It's been proven time and again that the buying public doesn't want cheap. They talk about it, but when the rubber meets the road, they don't buy it. Look at the low cost boats that the big 3 put out back in the late 90s, early 2000s. No one bought them and they went away. Dockside put together a nice package on Standard Edition 210s with Wetsounds tower speakers, amps, subs, etc for a REALLY good price. And when I say really good, I mean really good. And we couldn't get people into the boat to look at it or consider it. Instead they got in the Team 210 and 230 which were $20k more.

Shane, nobody wants cheap, they want value. That was always CC in my book. Yes you paid more but in the end the value remained and the resale value was there. Not so sure that is the case anymore. Far fewer people are able to write the check and you can almost forget financing. Home equity for most no longer exists, everybody is worried about tomorrows layoffs and banks don't want to get involved with boats that they don't really understand. Marine market has come back some but ski/wakeboard are still down 30% from just a few years ago. Bottom line is I may want a new Correct Craft but if I want on the water it is either going to be used or a new boat from a lessor competitor.

I am wondering if the announcement won't be some kind of partnership with another manufacturer to utilize CC's extra production capacity.

Did they cut a deal with Indmar to fill the gap when MasterCraft went to Illmor?
Did they purchase PCM to increase profits through vertical integration?
Supercharged engine?
Manufacturing in Australia?

Or none of the above, should be interesting.

[cedarcreek216]

If you've seen any of Chatt's past boat's you know he doesn't take any short cuts, he's owned some of the best looking boats around. I personally thought he was nuts when he was trading in killer boats ever year and now we're giving him a hard time for trading down in price and getting a nice priced tow boat that he enjoys. Poor guy can't win.

At the end of the day, to each their own. We can go round and round with all this, as long as everyone's happy with where they are there will be peace on the water and after all, don't we all like to see variety. I'd hate it if everyone had the same ride, life would be boring.

[Shooter]

I have followed Chatt's posts and I know he is a very educated buyer. If you have money to blow and want the "Bling factor", CC or MC is the way to go. If you just want a good wake at a good price, there are other quality options like Axis, Supra, Tige & Epic, MB. Its not that I think CC doesn't make a quality boat, I just feel that CC is not worth twice as much as other new boats on the market.

I think many wakeboarders feel CC has abandoned them. They priced the average wakeboarder out of the market and have not really improved what counts, the wake. The "old hull" days of CC dominating the market by making a wake machine are over. I feel CC has become the new Eliminator. They market to the people that want to be seen in "the best" and price is no object. These are the same people that I never see wakeboarding. They park in the local party cove, drink and bump their 20K stereo all day. I have nothing against these people and I don't blame CC for marketing to them, but lets stop pretending that they are manufacturing boats for the wakeboarder.

[Chattwake]

I agree with the comments above. Wakeboarders are willing to pay more for a better wake. I'm not the best rider, but I like to sac my boat out and hit a huge wake - even if it's to learn on. Most of my friends ride competitively, throw moabs, 5's, 7's, etc., and they want that huge wake too. I wanted a boat that I could throw 3-4k lbs of ballast in it and still get a clean wake at 75-80ft at 23.5 mph. I didn't want to have to go 26mph and/or deal with a finiky wake that washed from time to time. The 210 fits that bill, but it's too small for my family and crew (I've got a wife, a 2 year old, and another on the way). With my 230's, I had issues with keeping the wake clean at 75-80ft when I added lots of weight (trust me, I tried everything - I'm sponsored by Fly High and if you saw the number of different sacs I have and how I tried setting things up you'd understand). It's not just me either. All of my friends who have 230's run into this issue when they try to add lots of weight. I've pulled several pro riders behind my boat before and they've even commented about the washing issues.

I also had surging issues with the zero off with my '08 and '09. There were times with my '10 that the zero off cut speed completely (specifically when I was riding up river in Knoxville by the sea ray plant for those that know the area). I just felt that, from a riders perspective, I could no longer justify the price of the 230 when I could get the consistent performance I wanted out of something more affordable (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gszNwDXd3UE - those guys are riding at 80ft and that boat is slammed with factory ballast, plug n play, triangle bow sac and wedge). My hope is that Nautique tweaks the hull of the 230 and/or figures out a way to stabilize the wake when the boat is loaded heavy. Also, I hope all the bugs get worked out of the zero off system so it will work consistently with a slammed boat. If there is one thing I can say, I'm not scared to spend the money if I'm getting a better wake / performance out of the deal. I'm simply not one of those guys who'll pay more just for creature comforts.