Trailering G23

[jjackkrash]

While i get the point of the test I think that, like many other theories, this would look far different with the weight over the axle (like a boats weight is distributed over the axle(s) of a trailer).
I think this topic is seriously lacking in information when it comes to boats. There's a lot of opinions and concepts taken from general trailering guidelines, but not much information specific to boat trailering.

It would be good to add boat-specific trailering info if you have any to add.

I'd note I have a tandem axle 14k flat bed (20 ft.); a tandem axle 14k dump trailer (10 ft); a tandem axle 7k flat bed (16 ft.); a 10k TT (36 ft.) and have tested towing these trailers with different loads and measured tongue weights to see where each likes to tow. The longer the trailer the more susceptible to wig wag the trailer is, but they all start towing poorly with the tongue weight less than about 7-8%. The TT is almost untowable at less than 7% and likes to tow with about 12-13%. Even the short dump tailer has worse towing characteristics when the dirt is loaded such that there is not enough tongue weight but you can get away with less than the TT.

Boats are not as easy to test different tongue weights because it is not as easy to adjust the load. But I would need to see some evidence that boats somehow tow better with less tongue weight than other types of loads or that they are less prone to wig wag with say less than 7% tongue weight. I can see a trip axle trailer needing less tongue weight if the trailer is shorter and the load is lighter, but I will remain skeptical without seeing some evidence that 10% is not ideal or that they somehow tow better with say 5% on the tongue.

[Beg4wake]

For clarity I am referring to the dry weight of the boat alone. As jack mentioned you still need a trailer fuel and gear. This puts you quickly in the 8000lb range.

I’m looking to purchase a new truck in the next 6-12 months and currently leaning toward a 3/4 ton. I do want to check out the latest 1/2 ton lineup from Ford and Ram. If anyone is towing a G23!longer distances with a 1/2 ton please chime in with your experience...




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I tow my boat every time I go to the lake whether it's my home lake (10 mins away) or my next to home lake (1.5hours away), or to my dealer (also 1.5hours away). I have a Ram 2500 cummins. Used to have a Ram 1500 hemi and have also towed with a newer Ford F150 EcoBoost. The Ford EcoBoost would def be my choice of 1500's, however, I will never go back from having a diesel. HUGE difference in towing these big boats! Not to mention, you put that much stress on 1/2 ton fairly regularly, you're really going to wear that 1/2 ton out quickly (suspension components, engine, brakes, etc). IMO, get the 3/4 ton, they're made to tow on a regular basis and will outlast and outperform for this reason!

[cwglee]

This is why I load to 10%:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

While i get the point of the test I think that, like many other theories, this would look far different with the weight over the axle (like a boats weight is distributed over the axle(s) of a trailer).
I think this topic is seriously lacking in information when it comes to boats. There's a lot of opinions and concepts taken from general trailering guidelines, but not much information specific to boat trailering.

[philb]

I can’t believe, no testing on my end, that any tow boat trailer is putting 1500 pounds down on the tongue.


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Exactly.... As I replied to Cpan13.....1500lbs is rubbish!!! When I weighed mine it was 600lbs and that was with 100lbs of lead in the bow.

[cedarcreek216]

I think to a certain degree risk tolerance is a personal thing and there are legitimate differences of opinion on what amount of risk is acceptable. Also, there are some manufacturer towing limits and ratings that are, in fact, just recommendations and are not lawful requirements. I personally don't think you want to willy-nilly ignore these recommendations, however.

I can agree completely with this. The only thing I can find regarding capacities and WDH usage are recommendations over 5000 pounds, nothing about requirements. I am far from an expert, I admit to that, just hard to believe the numbers don’t work. I can’t believe, no testing on my end, that any tow boat trailer is putting 1500 pounds down on the tongue. I just have to watch the impact on my truck when I hook the boat up versus when I load a bed full of tile, completely different influences on the truck. Again, this is just using common sense, no testing or math involved, which I know would never hold up in court.


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[jjackkrash]

Clearly everyone has their own opinion on this topic.

I think to a certain degree risk tolerance is a personal thing and there are legitimate differences of opinion on what amount of risk is acceptable. Also, there are some manufacturer towing limits and ratings that are, in fact, just recommendations and are not lawful requirements. I personally don't think you want to willy-nilly ignore these recommendations, however.

[philb]

That’s exactly correct. Most manufacturers advertise a tow capacity that includes the use of a WDH. I have no idea if this pertains to the new Titans, maybe it doesn’t. However a quick google shows your max payload is 1600lbs. Most G23s run a 1500lb tongue weight so unless you plan on traveling alone with no gear then you would need a WDH to do it legally anyways.

Are you saying the 1500lb tongue weight is what’s on the ball, if so, must be something wrong with mine as it’s only about 600lbs .
My trailer is Boatmate dual axle with electro hydraulic brakes.

[jjackkrash]

This is why I load to 10%:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

[cedarcreek216]

Clearly everyone has their own opinion on this topic, some more educated than the others. It doesn’t take a lot of google searches to contradict some of the info and numbers thrown around. I can say in real world experience at no time in 9 hours did I, or anyone in my vehicle, feel we were under equipped or the vehicle was inadequate. Again, according to posts in this thread my 210 is over the towing capacity of my little half ton, unless I put a WDH on it of course.


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[jjackkrash]

They assume that the tongue weight is in direct relation to the weight of what is being towed. While there is a relation, it is not the same for your standard trailer and a boat on tandem or even triple axel trailer. You have way less tongue weight on a boat trailer that on a standard trailer of the same weight.

I am curious about this. What is the weight percentage recommended for a trip axle boat trailer? I run a weigh-safe hitch (it has a tongue-weight scale built in) and I always make sure I have at least 10% on the hitch regardless of the number of trailer axles. I recently towed a trip axle 21k flat bed and still made sure I got 10% on the hitch. I would not feel comfortable with any less without some assurance it was designed to run with less.

[jjackkrash]

With a conventional/bumper pull hitch, the carry weight on the hitch can move significant weight off the steer axle and can change the way the truck breaks and handles because the hitch is acting as a lever (because it is substantially behind the drive axle). This is unlike a fifth wheel or gooseneck hitch which puts the carry weight directly on the drive axle. The front tires can have less friction and less connection with the road when the conventional hitch is acting like a lever with too much carry weight. The purpose of a WDH is to transfer some of the carry weight back through the truck frame to the steer axle and also back to the trailer axles to counteract the lever created by the conventional hitch. The reason many half tons require a WDH after 5000 lbs. on a conventional hitch (but not a fifth wheel hitch) is because they assume the hitch will be carrying at least 10 percent of that weight on the lever (otherwise the trailer is overly susceptible to sway and wig wag) and the truck is designed to have x amount of weight on the steer axle. Assuming that the "brakes" are not impacted by too much carry weight is a mistake, bacause it is not really the breaks so much as the traction created by the rubber and the weight on the steer axle that is impacted by carry weight. Also, for point of reference, a WDH does not increase a truck's payload capacity and whatever weight is carried on the combination of both axles counts against payload (although some tongue weight is distributed back to the trailer axle with a WDH). And while air bags can help with sag, the bags do not transfer weight back to the steer axle or solve the all the problems created by the lever that is the conventional hitch.

[xxrb2010]

Be careful about the WDH requirement from the manufacturers. They assume that the tongue weight is in direct relation to the weight of what is being towed. While there is a relation, it is not the same for your standard trailer and a boat on tandem or even triple axel trailer. You have way less tongue weight on a boat trailer that on a standard trailer of the same weight. So, I am not sure you are beyond what is legal without a WDH. You should check the manufacturer max tongue weight on their hitch and not the max weight of what is being towed. The WDH just avoid the front of your truck to go up and the back to go down, balancing the weight between front and back. If you beef your rear suspension you get about the same effect.

Otherwise every trailer manufacturer with a swing away tongue non compatible with WDH is selling you a trailer than needs at least a full ton truck, and everyone trailing G Boats or equivalent with their 1/2 ton truck without WDH are lawless, that is 99.99% of G boat owner with a 1/2 ton truck. Look how many have WDH at the boat ramp. I have seen none so far.

[Cpan13]

So you think Nissan advertises a tow capacity of 9200 pounds and that includes the addition of a WDH? Meanwhile there is no fine print or mention of a WDH being required to get this capacity? My 210 is 4200 dry with 1500 for the trailer, so using your logic I am over my capacity without a WDH on my 210? Seems to be shady logic. I know there has been countless threads about safe towing and all the numbers listed out from weigh stations and all that, just have a hard time seeing the G I towed getting close to the 9200 lb rating of my truck. 5900 pound dry weight and 1800 pound trailer leaves me 1500 pounds for gear and the 1/8 of a tank of gas I towed with. I am sure there is something I am missing, but I don’t think you need an 11,000 lb rated vehicle to be legal with a G23 in tow.


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That’s exactly correct. Most manufacturers advertise a tow capacity that includes the use of a WDH. I have no idea if this pertains to the new Titans, maybe it doesn’t. However a quick google shows your max payload is 1600lbs. Most G23s run a 1500lb tongue weight so unless you plan on traveling alone with no gear then you would need a WDH to do it legally anyways.

[Gtsum2]

You are not saying much here that’s not real obvious about the ability difference between towing with a 1/2 ton vs a 3/4 ton. I towed up to close to 80 mph with the half ton and not once felt like the boat was driving the truck. Slow acceleration, sure, it’s a lot of weight. Bad braking, never experienced this once. I guess if you drive with an 8000 pound load like you don’t have a load at all, then you can say all this about braking and acceleration, but drive like you have a load behind you and I did not experience any problems. Would it have been nicer with a 3/4 ton, no doubt at all. Did the 1/2 ton do it safely and adequately, absolutely.


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I’m sorry, I’m new here and don’t even have a wakeboat yet (buying the lake house first), but I’ve towed boats, trailers and campers from 1000lbs up to our 17,000lb toy hauler all over the Midwest and eastern half of the country and towing a 8000lb boat with a half ton and close to 80mph is not safely and adequately imo.

Sure, a current half ton can do it, and if I was trailering 10-20 minutes and I had a half ton I’d likely make it work...but you put a family of four in the truck and a fully loaded (coolers, food, etc) boat and I’d bet many half tons are over their payload limit (found on drivers door jam on a yellow and white sticker). Like towing a camper, most half tons run out of payload before the tow rating is hit. Ymmv of course


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[cedarcreek216]

Sure, a lot of newer 1/2 tons are rated to pull 10k lbs or more. But most of them are only rated to pull that much when using a weight distribution hitch. Without the WHD the rating is generally 5000lbs. So if you get in an accident, even if it’s not your fault, and you’re found to be pulling beyond your trucks weight limit there’s a solid chance your insurance company will deny your claim or you can be sued.

Also I’m talking about towing a G23. I have no idea what your 210 weighs.

So you think Nissan advertises a tow capacity of 9200 pounds and that includes the addition of a WDH? Meanwhile there is no fine print or mention of a WDH being required to get this capacity? My 210 is 4200 dry with 1500 for the trailer, so using your logic I am over my capacity without a WDH on my 210? Seems to be shady logic. I know there has been countless threads about safe towing and all the numbers listed out from weigh stations and all that, just have a hard time seeing the G I towed getting close to the 9200 lb rating of my truck. 5900 pound dry weight and 1800 pound trailer leaves me 1500 pounds for gear and the 1/8 of a tank of gas I towed with. I am sure there is something I am missing, but I don’t think you need an 11,000 lb rated vehicle to be legal with a G23 in tow.


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