Constant Speaker Hiss troubleshooting/ advice??

[shawndoggy]

There's a thread on tigeowners from a couple if years back where a guy ran a line driver between his headunit and ws420 and that cured the hiss by stepping up the input voltage into the 420.


Me personally, I'm with Ryan. I've used the 2010 ws420, the $50 clarion eqs746 and the exile ZLD. The clarion and exile units both resulted in far less hiss than the 420, all tuned by a shade tree hack 12v enthusiast (me). There's still a very little bit of hiss in my tune from the ZLD that you can hear if you put your ear to the speaker in a quiet garage. Definitely can't hear it in the open air on the lake.

[nyryan2001]

Good luck... Hopefully you have some gain left on the 420, and the hiss can be reduced without gaining away the capability you have there in those amps. You have some great gear there.

If you can't my strike a balance between lowering hiss and killing your max output, recommend you take a strong look at a swap on a WS420sq or the new ZLD.

The way I described tuning your system is "B" level tune at best.... A high end audio shop who really knows what they are doing can get much more precise in the tune. With that being said, the cost of that tune with them is approx the price of a new 420sq or ZLD.

Good luck, I went thru the same issues with the same product, except audio experts back then tried to convince us all that that was the price of a DIY system, bad wiring etc, bad tuning etc.... that if we wanted a premium system and sound, we had to go to their shops. 100% not the case. In my case, it was poor quality products THEY were selling, promoting and defending to the death while doing everything they could to discredit other well performing products.


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[Paxdad]

No, just the opposite..... I said ensure the gains on top of the 420 are set to max... To maximize the path signal being fed to the amps... That way you can keep your amp gains lower, hopefully keeping the hiss threshold lower, and not loosing anything off your max volume.

I try to talk in simple terms, none of this is all that complicated, and I don't try to scare folks into audio shops to remedy things they can do themselves.

Funny you say that now David, that certainly wasn't your stance yrs ago on the 420. Funny how things run full circle. This is what happens when retailers hype products regardless of the faults they have. All subjective. No objective feedback to be found against the 420 or ZLD. What a joke. I fixed the hiss removing the poor product.

Hopefully OP has his gains on top of his 420 only set half way.... Moving them to max that just might give him a bit more signal to get the hiss under control as David described.


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NRyan,
My WS420 is mounted on/ in the gunwale panel next to the on/off/bilge switch which does present a problem for access I am going to tackle its relocation to under dash and check out the gain settings as you suggest. Moving it to under dash will also help in the future for volume control etc. b

[Paxdad]

Bypass the WS420 and see what you get. I am betting no hiss. I have the exact same problems on my REV8s, and I am almost certain it is the WS420 and will be testing it out shortly.

How would I do this? The hiss is still present no matter if the WS420 is set to main or aux.

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far. Looks like I have some work in front of me to sort out.

[nyryan2001]

Is NRYAN suggesting turning down internal gains on 420 and readjusting everything will clean up the hiss?

No, just the opposite..... I said ensure the gains on top of the 420 are set to max... To maximize the path signal being fed to the amps... That way you can keep your amp gains lower, hopefully keeping the hiss threshold lower, and not loosing anything off your max volume.

I try to talk in simple terms, none of this is all that complicated, and I don't try to scare folks into audio shops to remedy things they can do themselves.

Funny you say that now David, that certainly wasn't your stance yrs ago on the 420. Funny how things run full circle. This is what happens when retailers hype products regardless of the faults they have. All subjective. No objective feedback to be found against the 420 or ZLD. What a joke. I fixed the hiss removing the poor product.

Hopefully OP has his gains on top of his 420 only set half way.... Moving them to max that just might give him a bit more signal to get the hiss under control as David described.


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[David Analog]

I'll save you the trouble of inserting a couple of barrel connectors. With all else remaining the same, bypassing the EQ will absolutely reduce the hiss 90% of the time. But that is not a conclusive diagnosis. It only tells you that the EQ is party to the noise in some large or small way. It does not explain how and why. It doesn't get you any closer to having a noise level that you can tolerate while maintaining all the features you want from your EQ.

[ski4evr]

Very interested in outcome of bypassing the 420. I have the same issue. Wired to same power source as HU and amps. Set up following the directions. Is NRYAN suggesting turning down internal gains on 420 and readjusting everything will clean up the hiss?

[David Analog]

Everyone knows that the older Wetsounds EQ had a real noise issue and that the newer SQ model is an improvement. That's not news. However, results on the older EQ varied from installation to installation. No one was completely free of noise with the older EQ but some made the noise tolerable while others never could get it close. Pro shops often managed while consumers often did not. And that was the frustration that pro shops dealt with because they generally did not have the same experience with their inside projects. When finished and tuned correctly was there some hiss when the volume was turned all the way down and you stood up directly in the path of the HLCDs in close proximity? Certainly. But it was acceptable unless you had a source unit with anemic preout voltage. Iphones and Bluetooth modules don't improve things. I provided a prescription for determining exactly where the hiss culprit is. Improvement will come from more than a single remedy based on the mix of gear in a given system. The noise is not from a lack of EQ preout voltage as the unit had six discrete outputs that would deliver a solid 5 volts X 6 under every circumstance. That's more than adequate and more than a majority of EQs that split their voltage via a fader. Btw, the second running edition of the WS420 did not have input adjustments as they were removed which goes back many, many years.

[Chexi]

Bypass the WS420 and see what you get. I am betting no hiss. I have the exact same problems on my REV8s, and I am almost certain it is the WS420 and will be testing it out shortly.

[nyryan2001]

^^ I'd 100% agree with you if the hiss increased or was related to engine noise, with the engine running vs less when off etc etc.

and I also 100% agree with you they should be all +/- to the same location. No doubt. But the fact that there is no increased engine noise when it is running, doesnt prove, but does suggest, that it is not a ground loop issue. Would be a dead give away if there were engine noise.

Its just that his symptoms exactly replicate what hundreds of other folks have went thru with the first version WS420 like he has.

hopefully he checks the gains on the top of the 420, and its gained down some....causing him to gain up his amps to compensate. Super easy fix and immediate relief from the hiss.

Im kinda hot on this issue... I chased the hiss across 2 boats... and it wasnt anything with how I had it wired, but by the design and performance of that first version 420.

[core-rider]

Not a grounding problem.

Funny with everything thats been written...none have said the obvious..... the WS420 is well known for speaker hiss. the WS420's pre amp volts arent all that impressive and cause folks to gain up their amps to compensate for lacking volume and introduce the hiss as described above.

I didn't look past the fact the OP stated his power and grounds were not from the same source. Most likely that will solve most of his problem. Your theory is posible as well, but could be all for nothing if power/ground wiring aren't sourced properly.

[core-rider]

Jason,
That's nice and clean. From a practical standpoint, I have always preferred evertything out on the surface. Easily to avoid a cluster behind the amp rack. Everything is strain relieved. Easy to diagnose. Easy to service.

Thanks David... I built it liike that for every reason you stated. It may not be as "clean" as hiding it all, but once it's closed inside a compartment you can't see it anyway.

[nyryan2001]

Not a grounding problem.

Funny with everything thats been written...none have said the obvious..... the WS420 is well known for speaker hiss. the WS420's pre amp volts arent all that impressive and cause folks to gain up their amps to compensate for lacking volume and introduce the hiss as described above.

cliff notes version to reduce as much as possible for regular folks:

1. ensure your gains on the top of the WS420 are all the way up max.

2. tune your system: amp gains at 1, HU at 75% volume, playing balanced music, one zone at a time, slowly bring gains on your amp up till it reaches a max volume you like, well before they start to distort. Clean undistorted loud music. Do your towers and inboats like this. Also ensure your crossover freqs are good for sub, inboats and towers.

3. Leave the amps. Go over to the HU and bring the volume to 0. how bad is the hiss?

4. Hiss still bad? back your amp gains down a hair at a time till you can accept the level of hiss. Crank the HU back up to 75% and detmine your new max. Acceptable?

You are generally have to choose a trade off between acceptable hiss and your max volume output. really how often do you need to blast at that max? Can you live with a little less?

Else, ditch the WS420 for the newer WS420sq or the ZLD. Pre amp volts are better, and allow you to run lower gains on your amps, much less hiss.

I did a direct back to back swap 2yrs ago from that same WS420 to a ZLD for this very reason... and hiss reduced big time. But that was back when all the audio experts were on the forums overcomplicaintg everything and convincing everyone it wasnt the 420, but that folks were clueless in what they were doing.

Right now I am consiering the move back to a 420sq, for the ability to adjust and tune the 3 zones truly independently. Curent/old ZLD applies 1 tune to both towers and inboats = bad. Waiting to see what this new ZLD has on it, which is about to hit market here shortly.

[David Analog]

Jason,
That's nice and clean. From a practical standpoint, I have always preferred evertything out on the surface. Easily to avoid a cluster behind the amp rack. Everything is strain relieved. Easy to diagnose. Easy to service.

[core-rider]

This will better visualize what I'm saying. You can see the main dist. block on the left that runs to each amp and then another power dist. block on the right that handles the HU, EQ, and lighting power. A 1/0 gauge cable runs from the left dist block straight to the battery.