replace engine? 2012 SANTE 230

[BreezyE21]

I posted earlier this year about a possible cracked head gasket that was allowing water into the engine. A mechanic told me he diagnosed the issue and sent me back out on it. It hydro locked again on me, so this time took it to the local Water Sports Central. They just got me an estimate : 30K to replace the engine. Has anyone here replaced an engine? Are there any reliable shops In the southeast US that do good work at a reasonable price? I can't afford to dump 30K into a boat that I was planning to sell for 65K. Any advice is appreciated.

[NautiqueJeff]

For a new ZR-409, that price is absolutely appropriate, especially in a v-drive. We do repowers all the time at Silver Cove Marine, and that price is right in line with what we charge. I assume this came with a new 80-series transmission too, correct?

[jpwhit]

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I'm assuming current engine is probably EX343 5.7L. What make it so expensive is that GM has phased out and halted production of the 5.7L engine. As a result PCM, Ilmor, Indmar no longer offer that engine. So you're forced into an upgrade into a to a different newer better engine. The real issue is long term support. If you go with a new engine from PCM then PCM will support and stand behind the engine and any factory authorized installer.

The much cheaper route is to find an independent mechanic that'll essentially order and install a rebuilt 5.7 long block from a rebuilding house such as Michigan motors. But there are no end of nightmare stories with going that route. You have very little support or remediation if anything goes wrong. The mechanic that does all that work won't get much support help from the rebuild house. So if he installs the engine and something doesn't work right, best he'll get is the rebuild house to replace the defective long block. But they won't pay him for his time and labor to swap everything again. Net this option isn't so bad if you're capable to get the long block from the rebuild house yourself and do the swap out and handle any issues. But it's very hard to find a good honest and reliable independent mechanic to take this job on. There just isn't enough money in it for them relative to the possible headaches. So often what ends up happening is someone a bit shady will be the only ones that'll offer to take it on. Then they typically do the swap, give you the boat back, and then you're on your own to hope all works fine. If it goes wrong, they'll tell you to take it up with the rebuild house yourself.

[BreezyE21]

Yes the estimate includes a 6.0 engine and a new transmission. Let me ask you fellas a question:
Last fall, I had water in the engine. The mechanic told me they "diagnosed and repaired the issue" and sent me on my way. The receipt makes no mention of the culprit, so I didn't think too much of it at the time. Lesson learned there. After only 2 days of use post repair, it happened again. This time, took it into a local shop and their diagnosis is the entire engine is shot. The original mechanic is now ducking my calls. I am going to have to file a claim and/or go to court to get reimbursement. Is it fair to say that A) the likely culprit of the original problem was most likely a cracked head gasket, and B) gone unrepaired, this problem would likely lead to total engine failure if the boat was driven again?

[jpwhit]

Water getting into a marine engine can ruin the engine in so many ways that it's really hard to speculate. Just having water sitting on critical parts over the winter can start corrosion and lead to severe engine damage. The problem in this case is there is almost no way to likely know at this point what was the original source of water intrusion and what the first mechanic actually did or didn't do. Even legal action at this point is likely fruitless, because mechanics are fallible. To get a legal settlement there will have to be proof the mechanic was willingly and knowingly negligent. And that's nearly impossible to prove.

Good trustworthy mechanics are worth their weight in gold.

[Jonny Quest]

You can purchase a complete turn-key engine from Michigan Motorz (yes, it’s spelled like that) for $13,000. GM 5.7 fuel-injected. Any competent mechanic can swap out your old engine for the new drop in for minimal dollars. That’s what I would do if it was my boat.

JQ

https://michiganmotorz.com/5-7l-comp...replacement-1/

[jpwhit]

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What do you suggest for dealing with the following:

- That engine doesn't have an eControls ECM so it's not compatible with any of his boat's existing electronics such as the keypad and start button, LINC screen or gauges

- It's not ZO compatible so it won't work his boats existing speed control system

- It's not compatible with his existing DBW throttle system

- It's MEFI 5 based which is practically out of support

[Jonny Quest]

Well...dang. As I don't run D-B-W in my boat, I did not consider that variable.

Is there a viable reason why the current "bad" engine can't be rebuilt? Many good mechanics out there can rebuild an engine and use existing accessories. There should be a lot of room if $30K is the benchmark...

[Lockem25]

Personally if its only a headgasket it may be worth taking the time to pull the heads in the boat(leaving block in the boat) and get them sent out for inspection. This would likely be the cheapest route even if you have to purchase new heads and do a mild rebuild. Likely the block would be fine if it got hot but a decent machinist straight edge can tell you if the block is still good. Also keep in mind the cylinder walls while heads are off. These engines are just truck engines thrown in a boat(I know they have some differences but they arent more complicated)

This is the route I would go vs throwing $30K into all new heart of it. Push rod engines are not complicated if you have some mechanical capabilities.


EDIT: Also the 5.7 350 engines are known to blow out the gaskets on the intake manifolds. so that could be what happened as well.
The likelyhood of bent valves and such are low with just trying to start and realizing engine wont turn over due to hydrolocked. If it did start and then hydrolocked you may be in for a treat then and that is why places do not want to put parts on it vs changing the entire engine.

[bturner]

So I guess I'm a little confused by the direction of this conversation and what is going on with the engine. It would probably help a lot more If I knew what engine we were starting with I guess. If it's the EX343 5.7, what is so unique that you couldn't build one up from a long block and reuse the intake, electronics and accessories from the original engine? Now I'm fairly certain this is where AI is going to fall on it's face but according to AI this is still a base GM Vortec block at it's heart....


So my question is what's actually broken on the original engine? I would assume since it hydro locked it bent a bunch of valves and maybe even destroyed the lower end but this is still something that a long block should be able to provide..... right? If not what is different? While entirely possible, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that PCM was buying bare blocks from GM and doing custom engine builds from the crank up. There just isn't volume there to do that efficiently. Then again I know Ilmor did a bunch of weird stuff to the engines they were selling MC but I think I recall a couple threads where guys replaced their long blocks that had frost damage with new stock GM marine offerings. But I could be wrong here as well.

If the above is the case, in a few years there's going to be a bunch of otherwise great looking boats heading to the landfills. How do you put $30K into a boat that is worth $40K and at some point less than that?

[MN Ryan]

If the above is the case, in a few years there's going to be a bunch of otherwise great looking boats heading to the landfills. How do you put $30K into a boat that is worth $40K and at some point less than that?

No doubt! A $30K repair would send my boat to the scrap heap.