1,450 Pounds More Ballast in 2022 G23 & G25!

[scottb7]

"for the life of me cannot understand why they wouldn’t make this an available option. It’s simple, you download the new software and viola, everyone’s smiling again"...

I am a little confused by this comment. Will the new sac's fill thru additional holes in the bottom of the boat? Will they over flow out additional holes thru the side of the boat? Maybe yes, maybe no. but this does not appear to be just a software change. But maybe you can explain how you characterize as such. There may not be much hardware involved, but there must be some.

would it be a simple kit, maybe. You know, this is what nautique does. They make changes, to new boats and they move forward. It get's more and more irritating as the prices go up. But they have yet to change that "model". that is what they do...they do not get more concerned about this business model as the prices go up... they just don't.

There is a point, as irritating as it is - where you just - as someone said - you gotta just enjoy your boat and get off these forum's and not look back. It just not healthy, really.

There is also a reality that the wave and wakes are so beyond the skill levels of every single person, that the discussion is purely academic.

"fit a variety of budgets"....seriously, what the top 1% in the u.s. and the top 1.11%? huh?

"if i was being honest with myself..." i feel you, even though you know it coming it is still irritating as all get out with the $ it cost...i get it....

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

[QUOTE=scottb7;n637829]"for the life of me cannot understand why they wouldn’t make this an available option. It’s simple, you download the new software and viola, everyone’s smiling again"...

“I am a little confused by this comment. Will the new sac's fill thru additional holes in the bottom of the boat? Will they over flow out additional holes thru the side of the boat? Maybe yes, maybe no. but this does not appear to be just a software change. But maybe you can explain how you characterize as such. There may not be much hardware involved, but there must be some.”

In reference to the confusion, I was simply referencing the software integration into the LINC Panoray for the new ballast system. They said that wouldn’t be an option. I talked about the other stuff in previous posts. I understand how plumbing the ballast works. What I was wanting from Nautique was for them to make a kit available to integrate into my boat and I discussed how I thought this could be possible in previous posts as well.

“would it be a simple kit, maybe. You know, this is what nautique does. They make changes, to new boats and they move forward. It get's more and more irritating as the prices go up. But they have yet to change that "model". that is what they do...they do not get more concerned about this business model as the prices go up... they just don't.”

This wouldn’t be such an issue for me if it hadn’t occurred just one year after the initial hull design change. I actually asked the girl this morning if they pay attention to PlanetNautique Forums and her answer was “yes.” Which tells me they did pay attention to the feedback they were getting on this website, which means they saw the concerns 2021 boat owners had about the lack of ballast and made a change for the subsequent year based on this feedback. The only problem is they completely left out the entire constituency that had this frustration to begin with by not developing a kit for the 2021 boats. Who knows maybe they will. But to be told at this juncture they aren’t is extremely disheartening.

“There is a point, as irritating as it is - where you just - as someone said - you gotta just enjoy your boat and get off these forum's and not look back. It just not healthy, really.”

I still enjoy my boat. Still doesn’t make me any less frustrated by this situation. As you can see from my post count I don’t actually frequent these forums very often But if they are reading these forums, this may be the only way my voice and frustrations are heard. I pale in comparison to your 2,114 posts.

“There is also a reality that the wave and wakes are so beyond the skill levels of every single person, that the discussion is purely academic.”

While this is almost entirely true, it doesn’t change the way resale is impacted by changes like this.

[boomersooner]

I'm one that bought our boat without having seen it or ridden behind one. I had no doubt I was buying a Nautique.

While some of the changes and the inability to retrofit are disappointing, they don't change the fact that my boat is bad *** and it will bring years of enjoyment. This isn't the first time I've gone with a first year item only to find out they refined it in the second year based on consumer feedback. I was originally going to get a 2020 but waited too long so I missed my slot. This was before they knew of the hull change. Not sure how I would have felt if that deal would have gone through.

Ballast and the fact that it is integrated into the screen is the only thing I would like to have on my boat. The other '22 changes are not that big of a deal to me.

I guess I'll hang my head low when I go to lake in my dud of a G23

[pitts12driver]

Here is the letter I sent to the President. I will not waste anyone's time with the pablum and disappointing response that I received...
__________________________________________________ ______

Dear Greg -

I've been a Nautique customer for 20 years. Including our current boat, we've owned 4, and consistently moved up every few years as your product line has evolved.

6 months ago, we took delivery of a brand-new 2021 G23, which was a large decision given the price. We ordered the boat from our local dealer, and paid almost $220,000 on delivery. In absolute dollars this is a significant purchase any way you look at it.

While aesthetically pleasing, the boat has been massively disappointing. The steering assist has failed twice, the steering is notchy, it is under-ballasted, and the user interface is needlessly complicated.

I found out this week that Nautique has addressed many of these issues in the 2022 G23 upgrades. You have also doomed the 2021 resale value, and created enormous animus among the community of people who stepped up and supported the introduction of the new model.

As it stands, I have a 6-month old boat, with 22 hours of use, that no buyer who does even a modest amount of research on Google will want based on the overwhelmingly negative community feedback. I appreciate that you addressed shortcomings for future owners, but people like me are deeply compromised - both operationally and financially.

The situation could be ameliorated if Nautique embraced the 2021 model owners and provided some upgrade path at reasonable cost. I would actually be willing to ship my boat back to the factory - or have it at the dealer for a protracted period of time - to salvage my resale value. The interface upgrades seem straightforward as a SW load, many of us prefer the manual tower so that change is moot, but the ballast is a gating item.

I would appreciate your thoughts, as I am deeply concerned and the outcome of this situation will absolutely color my view on brand loyalty moving forward.

With frustration and disappointment,

Adam Grosser

[boomersooner]

Here is the letter I sent to the President. I will not waste anyone's time with the pablum and disappointing response that I received...

Waste my time with the response. I read your letter so I'll take the time to read the response.

[scottb7]

Waste my time with the response. I read your letter so I'll take the time to read the response.

I agree. I already knew what the customer would say, I would be more interested in the company response.

But he did write it quite well.

[bird_dog0347]

A well thought out and well written letter, I am also interested in being disappointed if you're willing to post it.

[RDT-G23]

Nautique should have learned from Ford in 2010/2011... They introduced the new Mustang body but kept the 4.6L 3 Valve engine, then in 2011 (announced only a few months after the new car came out) they put the 5.0 Coyote engine in the same car basically making the 2010 GT a bastard that no one wanted and resale went to rock bottom. Nautique needs to sell a supplemental ballast kit (at a reasonable cost) to 2021 G23/G25 owners that brings it to the same spec with a software update to the Linc or they will orphan the entire 2021 MY for the G23/G25 from a resale perspective.

I think I remember you bringing up this same story (a valid one) when I was upset that Nautique announced the ZZ8 as the new Paragon engine literally within a day of my boat having had the XR7 installed in it at the factory. It was for this reason that I literally asked them to pull my boat from the production line and re-power it with the ZZ8, (which they did-Phil gets credit for this) regardless of the suitability of the XR7 or not. It is and was a resale issue... The BIG difference? Nautique made the standard engine change right in the middle of a production year, not between years!

[Kenv]

As far as retail when the time comes.....whatever....who gives a rats azzz....you either want my boat i'm selling...or you don't. SOMEONE will buy it. The economy could be crap in 5 years and it won't matter....or we could be riding the Game Stop pony and everyone is buying used boats left and right. So I got an original Baby Paragon 2021....it is what it is. If they decide to add the ballast....I might do it....depending on price vs gain...again....wave is not going to add 9 360's to my already Pro Level riding.....LOL. If not....I'll live with it. ****....the 2022 guys are gonna crap when the 2023 comes out with a windshield wiper and a massaging driver's seat.

[bird_dog0347]

I think I remember you bringing up this same story (a valid one) when I was upset that Nautique announced the ZZ8 as the new Paragon engine literally within a day of my boat having had the XR7 installed in it at the factory. It was for this reason that I literally asked them to pull my boat from the production line and re-power it with the ZZ8, (which they did-Phil gets credit for this) regardless of the suitability of the XR7 or not. It is and was a resale issue... The BIG difference? Nautique made the standard engine change right in the middle of a production year, not between years!

Yes, the engine change mid-year was more of a debacle in my opinion, if they had waited till the next model year it would likely still be upsetting but not as bad and can be understood... this happens with all types of cars/trucks/boats/etc. as features change. Even with the ballast/tower changes to the 22's this year, the real failure is not making a kit that a 21 owner could purchase and retrofit, as I believe that the be the best strategy at this point and it's sad that it sounds like they aren't going to do it. I will say this though, if there hadn't been so many people saying it was under-ballasted but then they decided to add this as a new feature I also would not have a problem with it at all. And the one thing for sure I like better about the 21's vs the 22's is the tower, unless you're paying the $22k for the telescoping tower, the 21's look better to me.

[FireBreathingRubberDucky]

Yes, the engine change mid-year was more of a debacle in my opinion, if they had waited till the next model year it would likely still be upsetting but not as bad and can be understood... this happens with all types of cars/trucks/boats/etc. as features change. Even with the ballast/tower changes to the 22's this year, the real failure is not making a kit that a 21 owner could purchase and retrofit, as I believe that the be the best strategy at this point and it's sad that it sounds like they aren't going to do it. I will say this though, if there hadn't been so many people saying it was under-ballasted but then they decided to add this as a new feature I also would not have a problem with it at all. And the one thing for sure I like better about the 21's vs the 22's is the tower, unless you're paying the $22k for the telescoping tower, the 21's look better to me.

As I’ve said so many times at this juncture. I couldn’t care less about the tower or almost any other thing they did or didn’t do to the 2022 models. The absolute failure in customer service here is that so far there is an unwillingness to provide a kit to add the ballast to the 2021 models.

Kenv: My irritation comes from the fact that I went to great lengths to try and figure out the ballast option for several months and kept being led to believe it wasn’t going to be an option any time soon and if it does come out there will likely by a fix for previous year models. I couldn’t care less what they put in the boat that massages any particular body part. But ballast for someone who trailers their boat a lot is a big deal.

[Tchur1]

I have my popcorn ready, waiting to see the response from Nautique... please share if you can.

[tdc_worm]

Here is the letter I sent to the President. I will not waste anyone's time with the pablum and disappointing response that I received...
__________________________________________________ ______

As it stands, I have a 6-month old boat, with 22 hours of use, that no buyer who does even a modest amount of research on Google will want based on the overwhelmingly negative community feedback. I appreciate that you addressed shortcomings for future owners, but people like me are deeply compromised - both operationally and financially.[/FONT]

The situation could be ameliorated if Nautique embraced the 2021 model owners and provided some upgrade path at reasonable cost.

i just did a modest amount of research and didn't rule out a used 2021, because in my modest amount of research, i learned that for about $1620 dollars i can add 1350lbs of ballast bags and return the boat from otherwise unuseable to something barely tolerable. to me, that seems to be an upgrade at a reasonable cost. all that said, i probably wouldn't do it....i learned to boat surf on an unballasted 2000 Moomba Mobius eons ago and surfed a 2021 G25 recently...one of those was under ballasted....the other was nearly 5 tons of boat fully loaded.

attempting to future proof your purchases is a sure way to drive yourself crazy.

[Kenv]

As I’ve said so many times at this juncture. I couldn’t care less about the tower or almost any other thing they did or didn’t do to the 2022 models. The absolute failure in customer service here is that so far there is an unwillingness to provide a kit to add the ballast to the 2021 models.

Kenv: My irritation comes from the fact that I went to great lengths to try and figure out the ballast option for several months and kept being led to believe it wasn’t going to be an option any time soon and if it does come out there will likely by a fix for previous year models. I couldn’t care less what they put in the boat that massages any particular body part. But ballast for someone who trailers their boat a lot is a big deal.

Yes....for sure..I think that is one of the MAIN arguments....being able to drain that additional ballast vs having to "Unload" it when you want to trailer. I've only added 400 pounds so far to my 21....but do agree this would be the best option to be able to add. I guess i'm Ok with it more than some might be...due to my minimal 400 extra pounds only....but I do see your point and understand anyone's frustration with this announcement. You know I'm joking about the butt massage....maybe??? LOL

[GMLIII]

Here is the letter I sent to the President. I will not waste anyone's time with the pablum and disappointing response that I received...
__________________________________________________ ______

Dear Greg -

I've been a Nautique customer for 20 years. Including our current boat, we've owned 4, and consistently moved up every few years as your product line has evolved.

6 months ago, we took delivery of a brand-new 2021 G23, which was a large decision given the price. We ordered the boat from our local dealer, and paid almost $220,000 on delivery. In absolute dollars this is a significant purchase any way you look at it.

While aesthetically pleasing, the boat has been massively disappointing. The steering assist has failed twice, the steering is notchy, it is under-ballasted, and the user interface is needlessly complicated.

I found out this week that Nautique has addressed many of these issues in the 2022 G23 upgrades. You have also doomed the 2021 resale value, and created enormous animus among the community of people who stepped up and supported the introduction of the new model.

As it stands, I have a 6-month old boat, with 22 hours of use, that no buyer who does even a modest amount of research on Google will want based on the overwhelmingly negative community feedback. I appreciate that you addressed shortcomings for future owners, but people like me are deeply compromised - both operationally and financially.

The situation could be ameliorated if Nautique embraced the 2021 model owners and provided some upgrade path at reasonable cost. I would actually be willing to ship my boat back to the factory - or have it at the dealer for a protracted period of time - to salvage my resale value. The interface upgrades seem straightforward as a SW load, many of us prefer the manual tower so that change is moot, but the ballast is a gating item.

I would appreciate your thoughts, as I am deeply concerned and the outcome of this situation will absolutely color my view on brand loyalty moving forward.

With frustration and disappointment,

Adam Grosser

This is great, more 2021 G23 owners need to write similar letters to Correct Craft (Nautique). Maybe the light blub will turn on in Orlando from disgruntled loyal customers?