Engine options - G23

[natepribyl]

IRONJ"""I've had a few people out and let them ride with stock ballast only, and they said that that is even more than they need. My personal preference is to get as big as wake possible...I'm not complaining about the $ at the pump, just part of the game """

I was one of those people he was talking about that has actually been on that G23 wake both stock and weighted out... I will tell you this that thing was huge (I will post a picture when I charge my camera next) ... I have had the luxury of having a lot of friends with great boats so I have been on most of the top of the line boats this summer (New X star, Old X star, SAN230, SAN210, MCX25 and a MCX2) .... there is no question the G23 puts out the biggest wake with the most pop and thats at FACTORY BALLAST ... But when you see ironJ rip all your questions are answered on why extra ballast... Every time he went into the wake he was pushing it... This guy is not built like your standard wakeboarder.... he looks like a football player that lives in the weight room. When you see a 200 pound guy get shot up in the air like ironJ does I did not question the weight.. Super strong rider, that cares only about progression of his riding and the sport. His girlfriend is actually better than most of the people you will watch .... she rode full stock ballast and that wake was massive.... The boat with that 450 had no problem getting on plane within a couple seconds at full stock. That engine with a different prop I dont think will have a problem with the extra weight as well....

Not a big shock but these two people (ironj and his gf) are what the sport is all about ... great riding, great people and great times.... all the boats, boards and equipment ect. thats just the details.... FUN DETAILS but some people get caught up on the little things....Remember there is nothing like being in a boat with friends...
Hope everyone has good sets this weekend

[MCM]

IRONJ"""I've had a few people out and let them ride with stock ballast only, and they said that that is even more than they need. My personal preference is to get as big as wake possible...I'm not complaining about the $ at the pump, just part of the game """

I was one of those people he was talking about that has actually been on that G23 wake both stock and weighted out... I will tell you this that thing was huge (I will post a picture when I charge my camera next) ... I have had the luxury of having a lot of friends with great boats so I have been on most of the top of the line boats this summer (New X star, Old X star, SAN230, SAN210, MCX25 and a MCX2) .... there is no question the G23 puts out the biggest wake with the most pop and thats at FACTORY BALLAST ... But when you see ironJ rip all your questions are answered on why extra ballast... Every time he went into the wake he was pushing it... This guy is not built like your standard wakeboarder.... he looks like a football player that lives in the weight room. When you see a 200 pound guy get shot up in the air like ironJ does I did not question the weight.. Super strong rider, that cares only about progression of his riding and the sport. His girlfriend is actually better than most of the people you will watch .... she rode full stock ballast and that wake was massive.... The boat with that 450 had no problem getting on plane within a couple seconds at full stock. That engine with a different prop I dont think will have a problem with the extra weight as well....

Not a big shock but these two people (ironj and his gf) are what the sport is all about ... great riding, great people and great times.... all the boats, boards and equipment ect. thats just the details.... FUN DETAILS but some people get caught up on the little things....Remember there is nothing like being in a boat with friends...
Hope everyone has good sets this weekend

I agree with you last statement, and thanks for shedding more light on the topic. Believe me, I'm all about having fun on the lake, but when I'm considering spending this kind of money I'm going to dig into the details......I'm sure you would to. It's about getting the boat spec'd for the way I ride and not spending money where I don't need to. I'm sure you can appreciate that.....plus, that's why this forum is so great.

[TxJole]

You know most pros will ride a boat with no ballast, stock ballast and then slammed. If your comp riding you better master as much as you can in crap because you never know how it will be when its your time in front of the judges. I remember my brother practice riding in white caps in December. But thats why he won Arkansas INT state champ 5 years straight. Bigger wakes won't make you better.

[sja]

Bigger wakes won't make you better.[/QUOTE]

There are other aspects of maxing out the wake.

1) It is fun to fly.
2) Bigger wake = longer flights = more fun
3) in any sport, once you have the best equipment (if you are lucky enough to be in that situation) then you only have one thing to improve upon -- yourself.
4) and when you fail, you only have yourself to blame.

After riding behind the G23 and hearing that Iron was adding all that weight to his G, I thought he was crazy .... and I respect that.

[TxJole]

No don't get me wrong I love the G23 and the large wake. If I wasn't expecting I would be the first on the list to buy the first used one they got in, but instead I'm having to settle for the first promo/used 2012 230 (have to have the Linc 2) they get back. I'm just saying don't let not having the biggest wake on the lake be an excuse for not riding at the next level.

[ironj32]

Thanks for clarifying. Would you say the factory ballast is plenty for the average intermediate and advanced riders? One of the appeals of the G23 is to not have to add additional weight. I'm currently adding about 1200 lbs to my 230, hoping if I make the switch I can just run factory ballast.

Have you calculated fuel costs with just the factory ballast? And I agree, cost of fuel is part of the game. I know my gas guy too well!

I'd definitely say factory ballast is plenty for pretty much everyone that will ride it. Factory on the G23 is better than nearly everyother slammed boat I've ridden (Nautiques, MC's, Malibus, Axis', Epics), but I do love a mega slammed 230...only problem is in the 230 you have fat sacs all over the floor/seats of the cabin, and ride at 26.7 mph. For reference, super slammed 230 to me = 4300 pounds. If you're only runing a total of 2300 in the 230 (1075 factory + 1200 extra), you will absolutely love the G23 (230 doesn't even come close). It's hard to explain the characteristics of the wake...just have to experience it for yourself.

Realistically, factory is probably plenty for me too, however, I just like to push everything to the limit and it doesn't take any extra time to fill the extra bags don't really bother me...they are all under the seats, and they are done filling by the time the factory ballast is finished.

[MileHiGuy]

Does anybody have any experience running the G at higher altitude? I know they did some dealer promotion at Tahoe which is similar to my 5500' elevation but wondering if the 550 hp is a must?

My other concern is that I frequent Lake Powell and premium fuel is hard to come by and not what is stocked in the toy tanks of the houseboat. Would running octane boost or possibly a slightly larger pulley on the sc make the marina's mid grade work?

Thanks

[Mikeski]

It seems a few folks are providing guidance on powerplants for a 5900lb boat using experience gained from driving a 2600lb boat?

After spending lots of time driving my overloaded SV211, my buddies X45 with MCX350, or another buddies Malibu LSV23 running 2500lbs over stock ballast I have realized there is a huge difference between the performance of these tugs versus our slalom machines. First off the gear reduction is different, a direct drive utilizes a 1.23:1 reduction, a V-drive uses a 1.48:1 ratio. These overloaded boats often take over 20 seconds to plane and sometimes would never plane off without moving people up to the bow. Without having driven boats with the throttle pinned plowing through the water at 14MPH trying to get on plane you might not have the experience to provide a good answer to the poster's question.

In the vdrive configuration with a very flat pitched aftermarket prop these motors get well into the peak torque curves before they come up on plane. There will absolutely be a difference in the time to plane between a 343EX and the ZR450 in a loaded up G23 with a sub 14" pitch prop. If I were to replace my 211 I would go with nothing less than a ZR6 in the 3800lb boat. Extrapolating my experience into a 5900lb G23 I would not go with anything less than the ZR450 and would give some serious consideration to the supercharged 550HP Caddy motor.

The question maybe should have been: "Has anybody driven an overloaded boat with both a ZR450 and one with the supercharged motor?" I have not and therefore cannot provide a conclusive answer to the real question under consideration. I know that PN Jeff has driven a boat with the supercharged motor but I don't think the boat was loaded since it was at the factory and was pre break-in.

[MCM]

It seems a few folks are providing guidance on powerplants for a 5900lb boat using experience gained from driving a 2600lb boat?

After spending lots of time driving my overloaded SV211, my buddies X45 with MCX350, or another buddies Malibu LSV23 running 2500lbs over stock ballast I have realized there is a huge difference between the performance of these tugs versus our slalom machines. First off the gear reduction is different, a direct drive utilizes a 1.23:1 reduction, a V-drive uses a 1.48:1 ratio. These overloaded boats often take over 20 seconds to plane and sometimes would never plane off without moving people up to the bow. Without having driven boats with the throttle pinned plowing through the water at 14MPH trying to get on plane you might not have the experience to provide a good answer to the poster's question.

In the vdrive configuration with a very flat pitched aftermarket prop these motors get well into the peak torque curves before they come up on plane. There will absolutely be a difference in the time to plane between a 343EX and the ZR450 in a loaded up G23 with a sub 14" pitch prop. If I were to replace my 211 I would go with nothing less than a ZR6 in the 3800lb boat. Extrapolating my experience into a 5900lb G23 I would not go with anything less than the ZR450 and would give some serious consideration to the supercharged 550HP Caddy motor.

The question maybe should have been: "Has anybody driven an overloaded boat with both a ZR450 and one with the supercharged motor?" I have not and therefore cannot provide a conclusive answer to the real question under consideration. I know that PN Jeff has driven a boat with the supercharged motor but I don't think the boat was loaded since it was at the factory and was pre break-in.

The original question on this post was between the ZR409 and ZR450 and if its worth the extra money to go with the ZR450. The 343 was never an option in my opinion (I do have a 343 in my current SANTE 230 and it performs great. I'm surprised you would go to a ZR6 in a SV211. Overkill in my opinion). Ironj gave a nice review on his G23 with the ZR450 and how it performs with additional ballast well beyond the factory 2850 lbs. In his case, the ZR450 is the way to go. For those of us that will not exceed the factory ballast, the ZR409 may very well be a good option.

For what its worth, I rode in the new G25 with 19 people and full ballast. It had the 550 Supercharged engine and it pulled like crazy, great engine. The only problem is its cost prohibitive for most.

[tdc_worm]

First off the gear reduction is different, a direct drive utilizes a 1.23:1 reduction, a V-drive uses a 1.48:1 ratio. These overloaded boats often take over 20 seconds to plane and sometimes would never plane off without moving people up to the bow. Without having driven boats with the throttle pinned plowing through the water at 14MPH trying to get on plane you might not have the experience to provide a good answer to the poster's question.

you cant talk about one gearing component without addressing the overall gearing. in the case of cars, the final drive ratio is a component of transmission ratios and diffrerntial ratios. in the case of boats, it is a component of transmission/drive ratios and prop-pitch. i know that is over simplified, because prop diameter, cup, etc have to be taken into account, the same way that tire diameter, weight, width, etc have to be taken in to account for car. the point is you can get a 1.23:1 ratio boat with a 5" pitch to hit the rev limiter faster than you can the same boat with a 1.48:1 reduction that is pair with 25" pitch of the same diameter and cup.

The original question on this post was between the ZR409 and ZR450 and if its worth the extra money to go with the ZR450. The 343 was never an option in my opinion (I do have a 343 in my current SANTE 230 and it performs great. I'm surprised you would go to a ZR6 in a SV211. Overkill in my opinion). Ironj gave a nice review on his G23 with the ZR450 and how it performs with additional ballast well beyond the factory 2850 lbs. In his case, the ZR450 is the way to go. For those of us that will not exceed the factory ballast, the ZR409 may very well be a good option.

it appears we are all guilty of falling trap for the HP numbers. the 41hp gained fromthe 6.0L to the 6.2L only gets you 24lb/ft more of torque, but it is higher up in the rpm range.

here is a thought: why is the 6.0L engine the base engine in GMs heavy duty trucks and the 6.2L (supercharged or naturally aspirated) is not even an option? the 6.2L is only available in light duty trucks and hot rods like the s/c cadillacs? surely more horsepower must be the only answer so why does GM not offer those engines in their vehicles that are meant for heavy towing? what do they know that we dont?

[ironj32]

here is a thought: why is the 6.0L engine the base engine in GMs heavy duty trucks and the 6.2L (supercharged or naturally aspirated) is not even an option? the 6.2L is only available in light duty trucks and hot rods like the s/c cadillacs? surely more horsepower must be the only answer so why does GM not offer those engines in their vehicles that are meant for heavy towing? what do they know that we dont?

One reason might be that it's a fairly new engine? One it's been proven "dependable" maybe we'll start seeing them offered in the 2500's. The 6.0 torque is 380@4200 and the 6.2L is 417@4300. I'm not a super tech/mechanical savvy guy, so I don't know how beneficial the extra much 37 extra lb/ft of torque at pretty much the same rpm is?

Anywho, I went out again yesterday at kept track of fuel consumption again. We went through 12 gallons of gas @ 1, 30 min set with the extra ballast + 2, 10 minute sets with just factory ballast. Numbers are pretty much in line with my previous findings...would guess that 7-8 gallons of that gas was with the extra ballast. and 4-5 was with just factory.

Just for kicks, and to make sure I was giving you guys an accurate self-opinion, I did a short set with just factory ballast. IMO, I think that factory ballast is bigger than pretty much anything else I've ridden (including slammed boats...with the exception of a 230 with 4200 pounds in it, although it's close). I was ridding at 23mph and I can do every all of my tricks behind it.

The benefit that I see with the extra ballast in the G23 vs stock is that not only is it a bit bigger (not a super huge difference, but you can def. tell), but more noticably is that it seems to be harder and gives more kick off the lip of the wake.

Hopefully this helps you in your decision!

[MCM]

One reason might be that it's a fairly new engine? One it's been proven "dependable" maybe we'll start seeing them offered in the 2500's. The 6.0 torque is 380@4200 and the 6.2L is 417@4300. I'm not a super tech/mechanical savvy guy, so I don't know how beneficial the extra much 37 extra lb/ft of torque at pretty much the same rpm is?

Anywho, I went out again yesterday at kept track of fuel consumption again. We went through 12 gallons of gas @ 1, 30 min set with the extra ballast + 2, 10 minute sets with just factory ballast. Numbers are pretty much in line with my previous findings...would guess that 7-8 gallons of that gas was with the extra ballast. and 4-5 was with just factory.

Just for kicks, and to make sure I was giving you guys an accurate self-opinion, I did a short set with just factory ballast. IMO, I think that factory ballast is bigger than pretty much anything else I've ridden (including slammed boats...with the exception of a 230 with 4200 pounds in it, although it's close). I was ridding at 23mph and I can do every all of my tricks behind it.

The benefit that I see with the extra ballast in the G23 vs stock is that not only is it a bit bigger (not a super huge difference, but you can def. tell), but more noticably is that it seems to be harder and gives more kick off the lip of the wake.

Hopefully this helps you in your decision!

Helps a lot, thanks for all your insight! Given how we ride, I'm leaning hard towards the ZR409. My reason for moving up the G23 isn't solely based on the wake alone, although this is a major factor. I am very impressed with the storage, attend to details, and the ride of the G series. I've never riden in a smother wakeboard boat.

I thought the engine was a tough choice, now on to colors............!

[MileHiGuy]

Helps a lot, thanks for all your insight! Given how we ride, I'm leaning hard towards the ZR409. My reason for moving up the G23 isn't solely based on the wake alone, although this is a major factor. I am very impressed with the storage, attend to details, and the ride of the G series. I've never riden in a smother wakeboard boat.

I thought the engine was a tough choice, now on to colors............!

In addition to my altitude engine and octane question, you may have been answered another item with respects to how the G23 rides in bigger waters. The boat is much flatter in the back than a X25 or a Z3 but I guess by the shear weight, it must ride better than most vDrives of similar length? We currently have a 21' Malibu and the Powell waters beats us up more than I would like.

Thanks to everyone, the write ups have been very helpful!

[ironj32]

The smoothness of the ride might actually be what impresses me most. I have not been in any other wakeboat that handles rough water like this (G25 I assume might even be better). It slices through doubles ups with ease...no need to adjust the mirror afterwards, lol. I've had it out on Lake Minnetonka, which is home to many 40+ foot cruisers, which toss out legitimate 4' waves. Obviously, you have to be careful on how you handle them, but I never have fear when taking them on...it's just a beast and breaks right through 'em. At times it does feel like you're going to get air born, but then all of a sudden you magically just slice through them.

[robertsmcfarland]

Ironj32, how are you coming along with the prop test and review.