ZO surging solved & 2009 - future SAN 210 - ZO only

[SkiTundra]

Something else that bothers me about how CC & ZO are acting about this is the way ZO was forced on everyone over PP. And what we got was a product that is antiquated in requiring a 30 year old $250 special cable for doing updates instead of a standard $5 USB like most electronics have used for the past 10 years, doesn't have, as far as I've aware anyway, a PC app/interface to allow people to build custom curves, and to top it off doesn't appear to have been ready for market.

I can't remember all of the machinations that were going on, but perhaps AWSA should kick in so each (CC, ZO, AWSA) could cover 1/3 of the costs for anyone needing a fix.

[hourglass]

i have no idea. i'll call him later and ask him though. after reading this thread the other day i asked him if he ever replaced it and he said, "ya man it works great now. sucks they make people pay to fix it now." he was actually upset others were having to pay.

[SkiTundra]

i went out on an 09 210 today. last time i went the thing was bouncing to the point i turned the zero off, off. new antenna and programming and it worked flawlessly, on a river. my buddy also paid 0 for the fix except maybe shipping i think. i still kinda like perfect pass for wakeboarding though.

Where did you and your buddy get the new receivers from?

[hourglass]

i went out on an 09 210 today. last time i went the thing was bouncing to the point i turned the zero off, off. new antenna and programming and it worked flawlessly, on a river. my buddy also paid 0 for the fix except maybe shipping i think. i still kinda like perfect pass for wakeboarding though.

[SkiTundra]

That neither CC nor ZO are replacing this as warranty is REALLY beginning to bother me. If I purchased a Toyota that I was told could carry 1800lbs of cargo, then put 1200lbs in and it surged, and was then told by the dealer that yes, you can put that much weight in it but we didn't say it would drive safely if you did, I'd have a cow. And if they then told me that I could purchase an upgrade so that it would perform as I was promised when I purchased it, I'd have something more than a cow. We should expect no less from CC & ZO. I might expect this from a $30k Crestliner, but not from a CC. The boat should function fully, correctly, and safely up to the load limits spec'd. Anything less is either false advertising or something in need of a warranty/recall.

[JWAT]

Unfortunately, yes

[hourglass]

are ya'll having to pay for your antennas?

[airhuck]

Has anyone done install thier self? I have bought the new harness and antenna. I was just wondering how hard the install will be?

not hard at all. pretty idiot proof. the harness has different shapes for patching it in. the hardest part for me was making the hole in the hull bigger to accomodate the new antenna head. make sure you have a BIG bit. i wallowed mine out with a smaller bit and it took forever to drill through the hull....you also HAVE to send the gauge to your dealer or ZO to get the update. ZO will have it back to you same day they receive it.

[aquaholic]

Thanks!!

[JWAT]

I am getting the updated antenna Friday night and will probably install it Saturday. It looks pretty straight forward to me. There are directions on the website you can download.

On a side note...although I am still not very happy zero off or Nautique didn't cover this under warranty, I can say that Eric with Zero Off has been very helpful and quick with responses when I had questions regarding the new antenna, etc. I sent my guage to him on a Monday to be updated. He got it Tuesday, udated it the same day and had it back out to me that night. I ended up getting the guage on Wednesday. It helped that I'm only a state away, but his turnaround time on the update was great.

[aquaholic]

Has anyone done install thier self? I have bought the new harness and antenna. I was just wondering how hard the install will be?

[robertsmcfarland]

I tried that on the 2008 210: placing the antenna in the back; rode the same. I bought an extra antenna so I just hook and unhook to see if it would change anything, it didn't matter where the antenna was on the boat, porpoised the same. We put PP in, never had another problem. This was before the fix from ZO.

[Latonkaboarder]

It's been described to me as a combination of both. From what I've heard, when the bow rises, Zero Off thinks the boat is slowing down so it surges to speed up and get the bow down. This in turn just causes it to keep bouncing our "porpoising" because the Zero Off keeps compensating too quickly when the bow rises and falls. The new antenna and software fixes this problem.

Now that I think about it...if the above is true, I wonder if just moving the original antenna from the bow to the stern of the boat would help this problem since the stern doesn't raise and lower like the bow????

That's a very good idea. Let us know if anyone tries it and if it works. I wonder if the antenna cord is long enough to move it to the rear of the boat.

[JWAT]

It's been described to me as a combination of both. From what I've heard, when the bow rises, Zero Off thinks the boat is slowing down so it surges to speed up and get the bow down. This in turn just causes it to keep bouncing our "porpoising" because the Zero Off keeps compensating too quickly when the bow rises and falls. The new antenna and software fixes this problem.

Now that I think about it...if the above is true, I wonder if just moving the original antenna from the bow to the stern of the boat would help this problem since the stern doesn't raise and lower like the bow????

[xrichard]

What I'm talking about is more closely described as "porpoising" than "surging." There's no real perception of increase / decrease in speed or rpm.

It doesn't happen just with rollers...(prior to the new antenna/software) I could be pulling a rider in completely flat water (or near-flat...no other boats out but perhaps a little wind ripple). Then, at some point, the bow would rise and then fall a tiny bit...followed by a larger oscillation...followed by a third and even larger oscillation...then another larger oscillation. At some point, the up/down motion wouldn't get larger, but it would continue until I lowered the hydrogate.

Though almost any boat will porpoise if you load up the rear end even in smooth water--and the newer 210 will certainly do that--what is going on here is frustrating because it doesn't happen consistently. I could ride all day in the same water and have 2-5 occasions of porpoising. It was probably triggered by something of which I was unaware (e.g. someone moving around in the boat, an aggressive pull by the wakeboarder, an aggressive correction by ZO, etc).

After the triggering event, perhaps ZO helped to create a feedback loop--I say that only because the new antenna/software seems to break whatever loop exists, though it could be that it's more than that and the new antenna/software actively counters the porpoising.

Having said that, I haven't ridden all day with stock ballast alone so I can't tell you how it behaves with that set up. And I load up additional ballast with a moderate rear-bias. While I haven't spent a lot of time testing when porpoising occurs (...remember, you can go quite a bit of time between events...and I don't have the time or interest when there is a $330 fix available...), my perception, based on only a few data points, is that porpoising is likely exacerbated by a rear-heavy bias. Which also makes intuitive sense.

It could be that the condition is really a function entirely of rear weight bias. If that is true, it makes the 210 hull the most sensitive, by far, of any boat I've owned.