taking advantage of the consumer....

[tdc_worm]

looking for a legitimate argument that:

a) fixing a customer to a dealership by zip code and/or
b) intentionally hiding MSRPs from the customer

is in any way putting the customer first. both of those have a strong potential to artificially inflate the value of the goods, amongst other things.

[cotton]

Is NADA's "Suggested List" not the same as MSRP?
From the link below, go to Correct Craft, click the year 2009 (or other), click the boat model, click used value and the suggested list is included.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.as...&nopage=1#0417

[Nautiquehunter]

Fixing the customer to a dealer by zip code is a double edged sword. If its is a good dealer they should get the sale anyway but if its a bad dealer it almost garanties the competitors sale. I was going to buy a MC X15 After a few bad experiences with the local MC dealer I made an appointment to test drive the Nautique I never went back.
Because I was directed to one MC dealer MC lost a sale to Nautique. I don't see that posting list price hurts sales. SC posts list price on their build a boat section on their website. I found it helpful to get an idea of the cost of boat and accessories. I don't know why CC doesn't do the same my dealer was very open about list price.
Maybe its to get you in the dealer ?

[SkiTundra]

Me thinks the issue is that the market for boats is not that big and if dealers are constantly playing against each other then many will go out of business and many cities will find themselves without a dealer. This system provides some protection for dealers from this and somewhat insures that metro areas will have a local dealer. This is, IMHO, better than CC going to a system of all or primarily company owned dealerships which they could do just as Apple has done. As long as they are not colluding with other mfrs to fix prices in any geographic area there is still ample competition for the markets to function fairly efficiently. And yes, some people, and perhaps many, will choose one boat over another because of a good or poor local dealer and it is up to CC to insure that their local dealers are the best they can provide.

Also, MSRP's are really quite meaningless. The deal is if the boat is worth to you what the dealer is willing to sell it to you for and how that compares to others boats from other dealers for other prices. CC could say that the MSRP on a boat is $70k and MC could say that the MSRP on their competitive product, which you don't like as much, is $80k. Both dealers are offering their respective boats to you for $68k. Why, you should certainly buy the MC because it's $12k off MSRP but the CC is only $2k off.

[tdc_worm]

ski tundra---good post, and sparking the type of debate i was hoping. i am a capitalist at heart, and your first point keeps dealers in business not because they have competed to and deserve to remain profitable. it keeps them in business because that is what the mothership dictates. if service is an issue to you, that can easily be contracted out...the manufacturer pays for it either way, regardless of whether a dealer does it or somebody else is contracted to do it. when i owned a Calabria in TX, there were no local Calabrai dealers. The local tige dealer was a certified mercruiser shop and were MORE than happy to handle all of my warranty work.

to address your second point i am not a fan of my local CC dealership. I am a fan of CC as evidenced by the 220 and 236 I own. if i am forced to play by CC's rules, then my power as a consumer is taken away because I cannot vote w/ my wallet....i am constrained to the dealer they dictate, i mean, assign me to based on my zip code. so to have the product i want, i, in theory, have to support a business that i dont want to.

being a capitalist, i do agree w/ your third point. the market will bear no more than what somebody is willing to pay for something. the issue is this: if we have no reference of what the manufacturer values their product, then the true value can be obscured. in TX, CCs sell for a ridiculously high price. if i buy a 230 in TX, then move to montana, and try to sell said boat, i lose my arse. if i buy my 236 in montana and move to TX and sell the same boat, i make money. if you are the type of consumer whom can afford to spring for $70k large to have the privilege to own a CC, you are likely to be the type of person whom is relocatable to earn the type of income that you do. to that end, w/o and MSRP, the consumer is not protected.

if protecting what the factory thinks the vessel is worth is good for the consumer, then why does MC, Malibu and Skiers Choice all disclose their MSRPs? If it is a bad business decision, then explain to my why those three sell more boats than CC....

[GoBig]

This system provides some protection for dealers from this and somewhat insures that metro areas will have a local dealer. This is, IMHO, better than CC going to a system of all or primarily company owned dealerships which they could do just as Apple has done.

Not sure what you mean by this statement. Many retailers carry Apple products. There are far more Best Buys than Apple Stores. For example, Best Buy has something like 1,800 stores in the US compared to about 200 Apple Stores.

[gride300]

i think the zip code thing is based on finding the closest dealer to you. regardless of where you buy it that is the logical step. to check one out at the closest place.

[tdc_worm]

i think the zip code thing is based on finding the closest dealer to you. regardless of where you buy it that is the logical step. to check one out at the closest place.

while this is true, dealers are "encouraged' to refer you to the dealer that services your zip code. for new boat sales, profits are split between the selling dealership and the one that services you rzip code. CC wants you to buy from whomever is assigned to your zipcode, and penalizes dealerships who dont play by those rules. they dont want you to make the choice.

******the above statements are all based off of casual conversations, not documented fact. i am sure someone will correct me an post the truth******

[Bert12]

[quote="tdc_worm"]

i think the zip code thing is based on finding the closest dealer to you. regardless of where you buy it that is the logical step. to check one out at the closest place.

while this is true, dealers are "encouragedActually, I HAVE talked to a dealer personally about this. I was trying to purchase a boat from a dealer different from my "assigned dealer." He stated that he would be willing to sell me the boat, but that it meant he would have a "black mark" placed by his name. If I brought my boat in for warranty service to the other dealer (the one I was assigned to) HE would be charged for the work. This meant he would not be able to give me much of a deal (i.e. take your business where "it belongs"). Even though I am a loyal CC owner, this policy ALMOST made me change to a different manufacturer. I guess it's a tribute to their quality that I didn't and maybe proves the point. Still, as a loyal customer, I still feel like I have been taken for a ride. Why shouldn't I be able to shop around for the best price? If my local dealer made some bad decisions with respect to his business model, why can't I drive down the road and buy a boat from a dealer with lower overhead (and therefore a lower price)? This in NO WAY puts the customer first, and has left me feeling a little less loyal (especially considering how much these boats cost).

[SkiTundra]

Bert, you can drive down to road to another dealer; MC, Bu, Gekko, ... There is nothing wrong whatsoever with how CC runs their dealer network. It's their choice. If you don't like it you should go to one of the other mfr's.

Think about this, if CC didn't run their dealers the way they do you might not have a local dealer at all and EVERYTIME you needed something you'd have to drive to another city or order online and wait for it's arrival. On the other hand, if you don't like your local CC dealer for some valid reason then let CC know. A few of these notices to CC and they'll either make sure the dealer shapes up or they'll get a new dealer. CC is making sure that we have local dealers who can provide us with local sales, parts, and service. That's a good thing for us, the customers.

There's a vast difference between a dealer in a Metro area that gulps down 200 new towboats a year and a dealer in a Town that gulps down 40. Dealer A can sell 40 Nautiques along with a bunch of parts and service, Dealer B can sell maybe 8 or 10 Nautiques. Sure, you can go to the big Metro dealer from your town and save a few bucks on your boat but sooner or later your local dealer will go belly up and when you need a part on Friday afternoon instead of driving over to pick it up you can order it from Dealer A who said they'll also have to charge you $240 extra if you really want it overnighted so you can use your boat by Sunday (Fri & Sat are pretty much out). CC has to protect their local dealers or we won't have many of them.

[Nautiquehunter]

I have mixed feelings about this since I recently went through it with a different brand. I think if the manufactures want to protect their dealers then make the sale price the same like Saturn.
This will even out the market. That being said the simple solution is if the dealer isn't good enough to buy the boat from then they are not good enough to do the warranty. If price is the only reason you bought elsewhere then factor in the extra cost of going further for service.
What CC wants is for the selling dealer to do the service. This all works well as long as the dealers are both equal.
The customer shouldn't be forced to buy from a poor dealer a good dealer shouldn't be outsold by a high volume dealer and then get stuck with the problems.

[CradGen2]

I couldn't disagree with this thread more, I know BOLD... Boat dealerships and car dealership are 2 different anaimals. IMO CC does not fix you to a dealer because of pricing, but to grow the dealer so they can be the best in the market. I'd say if there is an issue in the local market, have a conversation with CC directly. I don't feel it has anything to do with pricing.

As a boat consumer weather is be CC, MC BU, ETC... you need to have that relationship locally. I don't see a bunch of boat dealerships popping up in markets.

Let say it did have to do with price. Pay more now and you should get more later, which been the case for the past couple years. Current economy aside.

[Nautiquehunter]

crads
I'M not sure what you disagree with? The only thing I don't agree with you on is the pay more get more later?
It strains the relationship and trust to overcharge and get caught. The dealer needs to price fair the buyer needs to be willing to pay a fair price. then both win and the relations get stronger. Its nice to not have to check price and know they were fair but this is not the case most of the time :???:

[SkiTundra]

Not sure what you mean by this statement. Many retailers carry Apple products. There are far more Best Buys than Apple Stores. For example, Best Buy has something like 1,800 stores in the US compared to about 200 Apple Stores.

Forgot they were now in other stores. I was thinking about when they first opened their stores. In any case it was a bad example as I'd guess if CC were to go to CC owned dealers they'd do a pretty good job of it (as has Apple recently).

[tdc_worm]

I couldn't disagree with this thread more, I know BOLD... Boat dealerships and car dealership are 2 different anaimals. IMO CC does not fix you to a dealer because of pricing, but to grow the dealer so they can be the best in the market. I'd say if there is an issue in the local market, have a conversation with CC directly. I don't feel it has anything to do with pricing.

As a boat consumer weather is be CC, MC BU, ETC... you need to have that relationship locally. I don't see a bunch of boat dealerships popping up in markets.

Let say it did have to do with price. Pay more now and you should get more later, which been the case for the past couple years. Current economy aside.

i am not sure, but i think you just made my point. a manufacturer cannot grow a dealership. a dealership grows because they sell one or many goods/services. for CC to grow a dealership, they are placing constraints on the marketplace. last time i checked, that causes prices to go up.

as for the relationship w/ a local dealership, i couldnt laugh harder at that comment. they dont take me to dinner, our kids dont play little league together, and our wives dont trade recipes. our relationship is for them to compete for my business, not for a manufacturer to fix the market place.

w/ that in mind, i have bought two brand new CCs in the past two years. i didnt buy them from the shop down the road. eghad! why and how would i do that?!?!? lets just use my 236 as an example why: i bought my 2007 236 last summer, brand spanking new for $15k less than a friend bought a 2008 220 locally. to make it apples to apples, i have a friend that bought a 2007 236 locally which he is trying to sell used for $12k more than what I paid for mine new. as for my 220, i paid $16k less for it than my local dealer would go on one of theirs.

so was i a bad consumer? if i would have bought locally, i woulnt have been able to get out of one to get another because i would have been upside down. the way i see it, because i am a good, educated consumer, i helped corporate CC put two boats on the water, rather than helping one dealer put one boat on the water.

assuming i get the same return in the long run, i am not sure how paying more now is more fiscally responsible than paying less now.