Wet Sounds XS-12 vs Kicker CVX12

[axeman]

Just like the title says, which one of these two would be a better sub on a 2012 SAN 230? It would be installed in the port side locker. I also want to keep the trash can so the box will be limited in space. I'm leaning going with a ported enclosure and cutting a vent under the observer seat. Anyone had any experience with these subs?

Wet Sounds XS-12 Specs:
http://www.wetsounds.com/pages/products/XS-12_spec.html

Kicker Comp VX (CVX12) Specs:

Model	CVX12
Size (IN.,CM)	12, 30
Impedance (OHMS)	2 or 4 DVC
Max Rec Amplifier Power (WATTS PEAK/RMS)*	1500/750
Sensitivity (dB 1w/1m)	87.1
Frequency Response (Hz)	20-500
Mounting Depth (IN.,CM)	6-11/16, 16.9
Mounting Cutout (IN.,CM)	11-1/16, 28
Min Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters)	1.0, 28.3
Max Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters)	4.6, 130
Min Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)**	1.75, 49.6
Max Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)**	2.25, 63.7

[NCH2oSki]

How much space do you have for the enclosure? I'd check that out and see what I had to work with first.

[axeman]

Well, I haven't taken possession of the boat just yet (not for another week and a half or so) so is there anyone on here that can tell me the amount of space available between the trash can and back wall of the port side locker (pretty much in the area just under the headunit).

[EarmarkMarine]

axeman,
Keeping the cooler intact and having enough space for a 12" bass-reflex enclosure will be a tall order.
Most 12-inch bass-reflex enclosures will begin at 2.75 cu.ft. external displacement (on the small side). Most (not all) of the manufacturer recommendations will reference the main internal chamber displacement without the port volume, port wall volume and construction stock volume.
You really need to have the boat in possession because this is likely to be a complex calculation for a somewhat irregular enclosure.
The boat will dictate the location and enclosure and the enclosure will dictate the specific driver. So picking the driver is premature at this point.
Also, you will probably have to massage the bass-reflex alignment a bit with computer software in order to get a fit. And, you might be able to tune most any woofer to a desired frequency in a given box displacement but that by no means it will be suitable in performance. The largest woofer doesn't always win.
I would begin with a low 'Q' woofer.
I would prioritize responsiveness over power handling. Multi-layer voice coils may handle a ton of power on paper but often have poor transients, poor midbass and poor responsiveness. I would be choosing a driver/enclosure combination that fits my particular application. Placing a woofer in the port side locker absolutely kills the midbass and makes it hard for a coherent blend between the sub and coaxials. So this location usually yields alot of 'boom', 'hit', 'slam' and 'pound' without much in the way of musical bass.
Freely venting the port compartment with a large grill (open surface area at least equal to that of the woofer) becomes a necessity.
That's the short list of priorities.

David

[Mikeski]

Under the passenger seat is my last choice for sub placement. Ever lift the clamshell and hear the bass come alive on a boat? I think David says it's a 6db attenuation, my guess would be 10db (in otherwords not audible while underway). I can't hear the stock sub at all when the motor is running on my buddies 216DD. The cooler with a side access door is a much better use of space.

The little jumpseat sub on my 211 did a great job. I am currently running a slot ported Boston SPG555 in a 1.8 cuft box in front of the driver. It is the biggest box I could fit without building it into the boat. It does a darn good job balancing between sound quality and sound pressure. I am also running it overpowered, it gets so hot it starts smelling like it's burning up but I have yet to replace the replaceable voicecoil in that sub (even after trying to burn it up).

Before the Boston I had a Wetsounds XS-12 in a sealed 0.8 cubic foot box in that location. Running it with 1200 watts I pushed 126db at one of the local boat soundoff's. I thought for sure I would burn it up that day. I maxed the gains on the amp and let it rip into full distortion go get that high of reading. The voicecoil got so hot it turned the plastic cone dark where the voicecoil attaches but it kept on working for another year and is still probably going strong to the guy I sold it to.

1st choice - ported sub at driver's feet
2nd choice - ported sub in cooler spot
3rd choice - small sealed sub at driver's feet
4th choice - other creative sub (raised floor in pass-through to bow)
last choice - any sub under the passenger seat

You will notice that most of the boat manufacturers have stopped putting subs under the passenger seat in recent years.

[EarmarkMarine]

The above post by Mike has a lot of accurate info.
The 10dB loss (equivalent to 1/10th power) would be in line without a sizable vent. An average 5 dB loss (2/3rds power loss) is more likely when using a vent. The loss is far from linear meaning more or less depending on the particular frequency.
When using the port side locker I often see the same tuning "trick" used for bass-reflex enclosures. A totally undamped bass-reflex alignment using a higher tuning frequency produces a giant response peak that overcomes much of the losses created by locating the sub/enclosure within the port compartment....but does so over a very narrow bandwidth. So now you have even a greater departure from musical bass. The bass-reflex enclosure becomes a single-note resonator while the port compartment also colors the sound as a resonant chamber with all kinds of phasing problems and delay issues. The net result? The character of bass string instruments is completely erased and every monotonous bass note sounds artificially 'percussive', like 'boom', 'slam', 'bong'. 'hit', 'pound'. Plus, this type enclosure designed to give you a 'bass boost' leaves the woofer unprotected between the tuning frequency and the subsonic filter. There is far too much uncontrolled excursion with no related output contribution so the woofer will eventually beat itself to death, as in fatiqued spiders and torn surrounds.
While this may be more education and more technical than expected, it's real world.

David
Earmark Marine

[axeman]

I guess the better question is which is a better sub period? The required box volume for both is very similar yet the CVX will require more power.

[MLA]

Im not sure thats an easy question to answer, depends on what your looking for in terms of an answer to "better". Which hits harder, is more musical, better SPL, more SP, fully marine, cheaper, handles more power, most efficient to power, which prefers sealed and which prefers a ported, which is the easiest to construct the proper enclosure for in my boat, etc, etc. You will not go wrong in terms of quality build with either brand, so it will come down to which model is best for your application and goals.

[gride]

just fyi, the only truly marine made speakers, at least for in boats, are JL, wet sounds, and polk.

[MLA]

See no reason why Kicker and Rockford would be excluded, as well as Bullet, Alpine, Clarion, Kenwood, just to name a few. Lots of quality marine speakers, each with its own sound signature.

[perry386]

I would say remove the little trash can thing in the walkway and put a sub with enclosure under there. I did this on my 230 and it works great. I also advise the XS-XXX sub rather than the XS-12 because I have it and couldn't be happier. If I turn the bass up I can get the tower to shake.

[axeman]

I was under the impression that I would need to dynamat the boat if I went with something that powerful. Am I off base? What amp are you running to the XXX?

[axeman]

Also can't really get rid of the trash can. Requirement from the wife + I like that there is one central location for trash that is easily accessible. Probably the number one thing (or maybe only thing) I'll miss from my SANTE 220.

[scottb7]

My 12" polk is sealed in a box in the place where the cooler once was. It sounds great...Yes I get more base if i open cooler door. But not really necessary.

[perry386]

I was under the impression that I would need to dynamat the boat if I went with something that powerful. Am I off base? What amp are you running to the XXX?

Im not 100% sure, but Im still using the factory amps and I think I have one of them devoted completely to that sub....also I dont advise turning of the engine and listening to music for an extended amount of time because that sucker REALLY draws power.

And when you said off base (bass) i thought it was kind of punny