no spark situation

[Frank Ferrante]

I have a no spark situation on my 1997 ski nautique With a 351 Ford PCM engine. I was just sitting at idle after boat was done pulling skiers and she just shut down, like you turned the key off. First I checked the kill switch, OK. then cap and rotor, OK, still no spark. I had 12 volts at the pos. side of the coil with the ignition switch in the on position. I swapped the coil, still no spark.
I'm thinking maybe the module in the distributor??? Please help

[Frank Ferrante]

Has anyone replaced the electronic ignition spark module in a 1997 ski nautique with a 351 Windsor engine and the prestolight distributor W/ the screw down cap. Looking for some guidance ....

[bturner]

I have not but since no one else is jumping in this is what I found when asking AI about it. It would appear this is a somewhat common failure depending on hours and in line with what you're experiencing. It would also appear that there could be several other possible issues that could have the same symptoms as you describe. There is a YouTube video that is referenced that gave me a bit of a chill and way past what I would personally do to resolve the issue with your current system. Rather than digging as deep as they go in the video, I would be converting over to a Pertronix distributor and calling it a day. I've included both AI results and a screen shot of the Nautique Parts Pertronix distributor offering.....






It looks like Nautique Parts is selling a Pertronix conversion as well....

[CHassmann]

The GT40 engine of my '02 was just rebuilt. Not saying this is the problem with your boat, but a similar situation happened to us. We were skiing for the second time after the rebuild and the engine stopped from 3 mph like we shut off the key. Ends up the pin sheared that holds the gear on at the bottom of the distributor shaft. I was told it was a manufacturing defect and the distributor is being replaced since it has a lifetime warranty.

[bturner]

If it sheared a pin like the above statement you should be able to remove the cap, hit the key and see if the rotor is turning. That would be a quick one to check.

[Frank Ferrante]

OK, my rotor is turning when I crank th engine.

I have replaced the electronic ignition module, still no spark.Then I removed the gray wire at the coil neg. terminal. All of a sudden I was getting spark, reconnected the coil output wire back to the top of the distributor and she fired right up! I shut her down, put her in the water( I thought for sure we found the issue) fired her up, started right away. It run for 10 seconds and then stalled. I now have that very same "NO SPARK " situation again.
I checked for continuity between the distributor housing and engine block ground, there is continuity.
I'"m struggling to figure out why no spark, thanks...

[bturner]

I don't know the engine very well so here would be my thoughts.....

First (and again I don't know the engine well so I'll start here) dose this engine package have a ballast resistor in the circuit? I don't know when it was removed but I would suspect that anything with electronic ignition would not have one. If for some reason it does, I would be looking there if we're at the parts cannon stage of this trouble shooting exercise.

If there's no ballast resistor, are you getting ~12v at the coil when cranking the engine. If so, I'm in the replace it all and let god sort out what's going on with it. From what AI is saying this system is not the most reliable system deployed and you're spinning your wheels here. Go to that video in the post I sent you and watch it. They talk about the reluctor wheel sensor that tends to go bad. In essence even though you're getting power to the module there's nothing telling the module when to fire. So even though everything looks like it's working it isn't.

And one more time for clarity, I am no expert on this ignition system but if you have a constant 12v at the ignition module and still not getting spark, this thing is quacking like a bad distributor duck to me.

There's a reason even Nautique Parts is selling a conversion Pertronix distributor.

[Jonny Quest]

Sounds like a bad coil.

i would check the following:
12V feed to coil (verify 12V)
wiring connections at both ends of 12v feed
have coil tested
bypass lanyard safety switch

[bturner]

"It's never the coil"



The on again, off again nature would tend to have me not believe it's the coil but it wouldn't be the first time someone (including me) has been bit by one. That and it wouldn't take much to test it. The lanyard is another great place to check or better yet bypass but I wouldn't think you would be getting voltage at the coil if it were open.

Here's the test procedure for the coil.....

[Frank Ferrante]

OK, so I tested the coil I have 0 ohms across the leads( do I need .5 - 2 ohms resistance there ?)
also checked the pos side to the center output , I get 9K ohms, I believe that's good
also checked case to ground , no continuity, also good
Im thinking because I have a coil with no resistance it may have fried my new spark control module....

Also checked the voltage at the coil with the ign in the on poss. 9 volts
I have 12 volts on the purple wire coming from the ign sw when its disconnected from the coil

[Jonny Quest]

You stated that you replaced the "electronic ignition module". To clarify, you replaced the Thick Film Ignition (TFI) module, correct? You re-used the heat sink from the old TFI module and replaced the module (part number RA116011) in accordance with Burner's post #3 above?

Only 9V at the coil sounds low.

[bturner]

~12v while cranking and ~9v in the run position would be correct if there's a ballast resistor which if you believe AI and you indeed have the Protech ignition system you should not have....


In that case Jonny Quest would be absolutely correct. Running any electronic ignition system at low voltage is not good and will give you all kinds of problems including the ones you're seeing. This is a common issue in the classic car hobby when someone throws a Pertronix conversion into their car without addressing/removing the ballast resistor/wire from the run circuit. It becomes a when instead of if situation for the Pertronix to fail as electronic ignition systems don't do well with low voltage. Ask me how I know this.....

On the coil..... If you indeed have zero between the 2 posts with the wires disconnected from the coil during testing, you have an open and the coil is bad. You need to make sure you're testing the coil correctly though. Here's a link to a YouTube video on exactly how to test the coil and how to set up your meter for testing as it is possible to screw up the testing by not setting up the meter correctly of by not isolating the coil for testing.....

Also note in the AI post above where it says it runs on a full 12v. This means the power lead going to the ProTech system is going to need to see that 12v, not 9v. If you have 9v power going to the ignition module you need to find out why. While very doubtful, make sure somebody didn't somehow upgrade to the ProTech system and leave the ballast resistor in place. If you're seeing ~12v at the battery, you should be able to fairly easily track the source power wire back and find the voltage drop. Both the coil and the voltage issues need to be resolve before going any further.

[Jonny Quest]

Seriously doubt this is a ProTec engine. Those have a coil pack of 4 coils mounted above the bell housing. This is a GT40 engine if he replaced the TFI module. GT40 coil is different than the old school canister oil. No ballast resistor that I'm aware of for the GT40 coil. Fairly confident that you need 12V at the coil.

GT40 Coil


Canister Coil


I don't currently have a GT40, but I'm trying to remember how the coil is wired and powered. If possible, try running a direct jumper with alligator clips from the battery positive terminal to the coil positive terminal and see if the engine starts. If it does start, remove the jumper and see what happens.

JQ

[Scooter G]

bturner, aka AI Turner.
I love love AI, I have solved some extremely perplexing problems that would of taken me hours, maybe days, in less than 10 minutes with AI by asking the right questions.
Sorry, off topic, I digress
Best of luck to you Frank Ferrante

[Frank Ferrante]

Thanks so much for all the input, I think im going to replace the distributor & coil , im tired of my boat sitting on the trailer & not being able to ski.
Frank