New or Old SAN 210

[ronskal]

Quite the discussion going on here. The old 210 is gone, IMHO a mistake just like Eric thinks BUT his outright bashing of the new 210 is kinda funny. Modern wide beam wakeboats with rampy wakes are were it's at (XStar/VLX/230 etc.).

I owned a MC X-2 "Classic" narrow beam boat that while not as vert as the old 210 it was cut from a similar cloth. Great wake, but my new 210 also has a great wake.

MC continues the old school wake tradition with the now called X-1, too bad CC did not do the same.

[jimmyj]

ride the old 210. own one, 6 buddies own one. its all we ride

have ridden another buddies new 210 with it juiced. wake was the best thing i have ever seen. HUGE. Steep. Forgiving. i spin. it. was. awesome.

[Erik]

Blammmo

Bashing?

Bashing my favorite boat manufacturer?

No.

Seems I've been bashed though, although I noted that a good portion of this is my opinion in the hopes of bash-protection. A lot of your side of the basing was uncalled for except for the wakesurfing jab. Maybe even that should be looked into. On the places I use my boat, wakesurfing is a nusiance (small, almost private bodies of water).

I've personally ridden behind the new 210 weighted beyond its capacity plate - and that simply didn't do the trick for me. My weighting philosophy is that you weight the boat to its gills, but prefer to never, ever see a single bag in plain sight. To weight the new 210 and get a similarly sized wake out of it is not possible and that too (without lead) has been affirmed by a few of you. I personally need that large wake to "buck me". I need that height - partially based on my own middling abilities and partially based on the fact that I come from wakes with a sharp peak - the oft spoke of trough never bothered me, and in truth I never noticed it. For me & my setup, 1400lbs or even 1200, on an old-style Super Sport-based 210 is phenomenal.

So I also nodded to the fact that the interior is better on the new than on the old. Much, actually. So how about this. Let's meet in the middle. I could have taken it down a notch and wish I had now.

I'm not going to ask trick-for-trick what lffish133's riding level is, though I'll give some insight into mine because it was questioned. My short New England season, or boat hours, are no measurement of the level at which I ride and only a slight indication of how often I ride (I still ride behind other people's boats and the old 2001). My personal ability level is advanced to lower outlaw according to INT. I do compete. I've got 7-10 inverts & variants, as well as spins up to ts 720's (my only 7). I need a large wake because I am not one of those guys that can do anything behind any thing. So, perhaps I owe an apology to you guys. I like this helpful group, as well as most of Correct Craft's boats. I don't feel strongly about the new 210 but that's me - one person.

New 210 owners, Best of luck with your 210. I've said what I needed to say and everyone knows I say it whether it's popular or not. It's not the boat for me, but no boat meets every need for every person.

Sorry for rubbing a couple of you the wrong way this time around. Hat in hand - sorry.

[reeder]

What was the original Question????

Great reading for a Monday!

I think to get back to the original question, it is all subjective. I think there are way too many factors involved.

For example, do you add additional ballast?
Like it or not.......AGE and how quick do you bounce back from injury
Skill level.....etc....

Either way you can't go wrong. I had and 03 for 2 years and an 05 SAN 210 for 5 years and loved both of them. Now I have a 2010 210.

I agree, the early version of the 210 has a definate trough (also been described as a speed bump) before you hit the wake. If you are not used to riding that hull it will take some adjustment. However, once you do get used to it, it has hellapop. Although the sweet spot is smaller and your timing has to be failry accurate before you try your invert or spin, it does give you some great pop. Both with stock ballast and additional ballast.

The new hull, no trough to get used to and a much larger sweet spot. I like this as sometimes my timing is off, and my old boat I would come up short if I left early and case the wake etc.....hurts my knees etc.....new hull since the sweet spot is larger, much more room for error! (which we all have) IMHO the new hull makes it easier to progress since there is a larger sweet spot. And from experience,(having owned both and not just riding behind one or the other a few times) I can tell you with out a doubt the both hulls are great. I do prefer the new hull personally. Even with stock ballast, 8 people and the Hydrogate lever all the way back I still get just as much pop if not more than my old wake. Also, we have anywhere between 8-12 people out every weekend and there seems to be more room from a comfort standpoint. (4-5 of those people are kids under 10)

Bottom line, there are many factors involved and its best to ride and drive each one and pick the one that you like best. Can't go wrong either way! As you can see from this forum, some like the new, some like the old, what will your pick be?

[BrearlyMason]

To give some insight on our riding, I ride at 80 feet 24 MPH. Cameron about 75 ft 23.5-24. Neither one of us are really good by any means, but I would say better than your average riders.

Why on earth are you riding at 80' @ 24 MPH when you say that you you are not good by any means?

Switch it up to 65' at 22.5 MPH and get good and then go to 80'. I can land my S-Bend at 65' pretty easily 9/10 times at 65', but only about 4/10 times at 80'.

[SuperSquirt]

I'll throw in my two cents here since I have ridden both boats for multiple years (currently own an 08 model).

I still love the old 210 wake cause it will buck you straight up in the air by simply holding on an edge, but the landing ramp was very short and you'll almost always land out in the flats (which supports the busted knee problems that I and many others have experienced). The downsides include storage, 330 motor, and some outdated electronic options.

The new 210 is very different, but in a better way (IMO). The wake alone is way meatier than the old 210 and only sacrifices a little steepness for the longer ramp. This wake is wider than the old one and may not suit your riding preferences (depending on your skill level, but you can always shorten the rope). The new options on the new boats really stand out against the old 210s Team options and may be a factor in your decision as well (ex. GPS speed, tower choices, seating layout, ballast, etc). You may not care about these options and be strictly about riding, but like anything else, the newer the nicer.

Here are a couple of previous pics i have previously posted showing off the new 210 wake (with about 2500 lb ballast)

[BorderCruiser]

Thanks for the useful information on these last several posts. The pics are helpful Super Squirt, that is a very nice looking wake with plenty of size and pop. Anyone have comparable pics of the old hull wake?? I really didn't mean to invoke the personal bashing, but it has been entertaining to read none the less! I will definitely see what I can do about getting behind both models before I make any decisions. As many of you have said I will get used to whatever I end up with, so will probably opt for the more spacious newer model and add the fly high ballast system for starters. BTW wakeboarding is my only interest, I have not wakesurfed as of yet. I suck at wakeskating but the falls do hurt alot less. I guess I would consider myself a little above the average rider with 5-7 inverts, hoping to increase that number. I do need a big wake though as I am 6' and 220lbs riding a 144 board.

[horkn]

The older I get, the more a forgiving landing rampy wake sounds good to me. I've been boarding practically since the sport started, and the old pop up death wake was fun back in the day, now my knees take a beating on that same wake. Being a bigger taller guy probably isn't the best for wakeboarding too, but I manage to have fun in spite of that.

Plus I need more room with the bigger family I have. YMMV

[Erik]

Olive branch. Trying to return to civility.

In terms of positive experiences I've had with "meaty" wakes with a long transition - I have fond memories the MasterCraft X-1, more specifically the original, direct drive X-Star/Prostar 205 which I rode behind at a few contests. From your personal accounts, you make the wakes sound similar and that wasn't my experience with the new 210. While the 205 doesn't have that straight up pop that the 210 classic does, its wake is phenomenal and it has the long transitions of which you speak. So my ears are open.

For anyone who has ridden both (the X-Star direct drive or v-drive AND the new 210), can you do a little comparison, just to see if we're on the same page with regard to a less rampy, more moundy, but still significant wake. How do you see them as comparing to one another. In your words from your own experiences (and experimentation with weighting) can you share a bit?

[ronskal]

I will try to compare but I wish I had ridden the 210 "Classic" when I had the chance.

My 04 X2 was more vert when aft weighted and more rampy when nose weighted. This along with a narrow beam (easier for W to W) and good shape were the best attributes. Since I am older and do not care to go big on ballast or tricks, I cannot talk about 2K in ballast.

The new 210 just works for me but my wake experience is limited to these two boats and an I/O. We have not experimented much with wake shape, just fill the tanks and trim the ballast as required to get it even and have fun.

The new 210 is meatier and rampier, but it seems like it has less vert than the 205V/X-2/X-1 hull. The best comparison is this: my 325 pound buddy had to nuke blast (edge hard/fast) the X-2 wake to get across because the wake did not have enough meat but the new 210 can sustain his weight because of the ramp.

[xrichard]

I ride a 2002 x-star regularly (same as current X-1) with about 1800 lbs ballast. To get a clean wake at 23.5-24, we find it requires a heavy weight bias to the bow. It's a very nice wake with plenty of pop--but nothing in terms of steepness compared to the old 210. And it's not quite the steepness of the new 210 with a similar amount of weight. Nor is the wake as "meaty" through the lip. A lot of people ride with much more weight, so YMMV. (...also keep in mind that the new 210 weighs about 800 lbs more than the old X-Star/X-1 when both are empty of ballast).

Back in the day, I sold my sport Nautique (same hull as a super air, but in a dd configuration) and bought an '02 X-Star. I ended up selling the X-Star 6 months later because I missed the steep and abrupt wake of the Nautique hull.

There are meaningful differences among wakes and, as many have mentioned, it's all personal preference so the best thing is to ride behind the boats that interest you.

In my experience, the current 210 is one of the steeper wakes available in a new boat and is particularly easy to weight. But it's not as steep as the old 210. When I was a much better and more aggressive rider, I used to like learning tricks on my friend's 2000 VLX (easy to build a large wake, but it was rampy) and then take them big behind my Nautique. Now I enjoy a relatively steep wake with a big landing zone.

[ronskal]

xrichard- So the new 210 for you is more vert. than the 205V hull. I ride at 22 MPH and 65 or 70 feet (Wally!). How do you run the 210? What speed and length?

[Chattwake]

I've owned an '02 xstar and ridden behind a new 210 many many times. I personally find the wakes very similar, except the 210's is a bit wider. Good trough, transition, lip, etc. I like the 210 wake better than my 230 wake.

I only rode behind an older 210 a few times and I had an extremely hard time with adjusting my timing and with landings. No doubt it's a great wake for those who are used to it, but for anyone who cares about saving their knees, I'd suggest the new 210 for sure.

[xrichard]

xrichard- So the new 210 for you is more vert. than the 205V hull. I ride at 22 MPH and 65 or 70 feet (Wally!). How do you run the 210? What speed and length?

I think everyone I ride with, even the 205v/X-Star/X-1 owner, would agree. The fact that we find the 205V hull requires more weight forward might be key. With more weight in the rear (for a steeper wake), we find the speed has to be above 24mph (gps calibrated) or we get some crumbling on the lip at 75'. The more weight in the rear, the shorter we have to ride to get a clean wake--or we have to go faster. For my group, 24 is starting to push how fast anyone wants to ride. I tend not to like 65-70'...I definitely don't like landing in the flats.

On my 210, I bias the weight toward the rear enough that it takes my boat a bit to get on plane...but a rear weight bias throws a steeper wake and it stays clean down to 22-22.5. Fortunately, it's not a very finicky wake, so it's easy to shape. For weight, I run stock ballast (about 800 lbs) plus 400-500 lbs on top of the rear tanks, 150lbs of lead under the rear seats, 200 lbs additional in the ski locker and 100lbs additional in the bow.

On the 205v/old X-Star/X1 hull, I ride 75' at 24 mph. On my boat, I ride 75' at 23.2-23.5 mph. On my friend's old 210 hull, I ride 75 at 23 to 23.2 mph (I used to ride 80' at +/-23 on that hull with 1200-1400lbs total in the boat, but 80' is intimidating these days on toe side. My friend typically runs around 1500-1800 lbs total in his old 210 hull...that it's a nice wake...big and steep).

[seth]

01 SAN ~3200lbs

HS rider 5'7
TS rider 6'4
Rope 85'
PP around 24